Mail Archives: geda-user/2015/10/04/17:39:38
--f46d0444ec07be8c4b05214e3aa5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 7:22 PM, <gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 4 Oct 2015, Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via
> geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
>
> On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 2:48 AM, <gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 4 Oct 2015, Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via
>>> geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Igor2 is off working on something using SDL because it is maintained
>>>> but has a slower release cycle. The logical reason being that we don't
>>>> really care about new gtk functionality but we have to burn time
>>>> fixing things for each major gtk release.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SPOLIER ALERT: I am not talking about gschem or pcb here; I don't say
>>> any of
>>> the geda tools should or should not use gtk. I just share my personal
>>> opinion about using gtk in general. I won't respond to text that ignores
>>> this.
>>>
>>> Yes, I think GTK is a bad idea long term (for any application), and it's
>>> not
>>> qt that'd solve this. My resoning goes:
>>>
>>
>> Google would agree with you they dumped it.
>>
>> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/03/12/0147256/google-to-replace-gtk-with-its-own-aura-in-chrome
>>
>
> Nice!
>
> - GTK doesn't look native on anything else than gnome. Most other toolkits
>>> have the same property: native only on one or on a few systems. So using
>>> anything else doesn't make this worse or better. (If an app wants to look
>>> native on multiple platforms, it needs multiple native GUI frontends, one
>>> for each platform.)
>>>
>>
>> MATE is actively developed and based on GTK2 (migrating slowly to
>> GTK3) because the users and developers like GNOME2 and hated using
>> OpenGL for everything the way GNOME3 does.
>>
>
> SDL2 does this cleverly: you can chose, per window, to use software
> rendering or acceleration, when you create the window. There are drawing
> primitives that are compatible with both. I will make it possible for the
> user to switch between sw rendering, hw accel and auto-select (default) at
> application startup-time.
>
>
>> I said earlier on the geda-developers list that a good blue sky
>> project would be giving geda a way to have multiple GUI's like pcb
>> does with hid.
>>
>
> I second that. PCB benefits from having HIDs - not only because it makes
> it easier to add a new HID, but I believe it made the code better by
> inserting an API between the engine and the UI. I believe gschem could
> benefit the same way.
>
Having spent some time in hid/ lately I strongly dislike the idea of more
of that sort of thing. It adds zero new functionality, just allows people
to doggedly cling to their favorite platform. The implementations behind
the hid diverge and make every actual feature you might wand to fix or add
harder. Gtk works. Gtk2 works. "It might break or go away 5 years from
now" is not much of an argument for doing the big work required to support
other things.
--f46d0444ec07be8c4b05214e3aa5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 7:22 PM, <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailt=
o:gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu" target=3D"_blank">gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu</a>></span>=
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><br>
<br>
On Sun, 4 Oct 2015, Evan Foss (<a href=3D"mailto:evanfoss AT gmail DOT com" target=
=3D"_blank">evanfoss AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delori=
e.com" target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 2:48 AM,=C2=A0 <<a href=3D"mailto:gedau AT igor2 DOT rep=
o.hu" target=3D"_blank">gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
On Sun, 4 Oct 2015, Evan Foss (<a href=3D"mailto:evanfoss AT gmail DOT com" target=
=3D"_blank">evanfoss AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delori=
e.com</a>] wrote:<br>
<br>
<snip><br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Igor2 is off working on something using SDL because it is maintained<br>
but has a slower release cycle. The logical reason being that we don't<=
br>
really care about new gtk functionality but we have to burn time<br>
fixing things for each major gtk release.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
SPOLIER ALERT: I am not talking about gschem or pcb here; I don't say a=
ny of<br>
the geda tools should or should not use gtk. I just share my personal<br>
opinion about using gtk in general. I won't respond to text that ignore=
s<br>
this.<br>
<br>
Yes, I think GTK is a bad idea long term (for any application), and it'=
s not<br>
qt that'd solve this. My resoning goes:<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Google would agree with you they dumped it.<br>
<a href=3D"http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/03/12/0147256/google-to-replac=
e-gtk-with-its-own-aura-in-chrome" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/03/12/0147256/google-to-replace-gtk-with-its=
-own-aura-in-chrome</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
Nice!<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- GTK doesn't look native on anything else than gnome. Most other toolk=
its<br>
have the same property: native only on one or on a few systems. So using<br=
>
anything else doesn't make this worse or better. (If an app wants to lo=
ok<br>
native on multiple platforms, it needs multiple native GUI frontends, one<b=
r>
for each platform.)<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
MATE is actively developed and based on GTK2 (migrating slowly to<br>
GTK3) because the users and developers like GNOME2 and hated using<br>
OpenGL for everything the way GNOME3 does.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
SDL2 does this cleverly: you can chose, per window, to use software renderi=
ng or acceleration, when you create the window. There are drawing primitive=
s that are compatible with both. I will make it possible for the user to sw=
itch between sw rendering, hw accel and auto-select (default) at applicatio=
n startup-time.<span class=3D""><br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I said earlier on the geda-developers list that a good blue sky<br>
project would be giving geda a way to have multiple GUI's like pcb<br>
does with hid.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
I second that. PCB benefits from having HIDs - not only because it makes it=
easier to add a new HID, but I believe it made the code better by insertin=
g an API between the engine and the UI. I believe gschem could benefit the =
same way.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">Having spent some =
time in hid/ lately I strongly dislike the idea of more of that sort of thi=
ng.=C2=A0 It adds zero new functionality, just allows people to doggedly cl=
ing to their favorite platform.=C2=A0 The implementations behind the hid di=
verge and make every actual feature you might wand to fix or add harder.=C2=
=A0 Gtk works.=C2=A0 Gtk2 works. =C2=A0"It might break or go away 5 ye=
ars from now" is not much of an argument for doing the big work requir=
ed to support other things.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><div><br></div></div></di=
v></div>
--f46d0444ec07be8c4b05214e3aa5--
- Raw text -