X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=joEblCqGkBwSZi7Ge7/eqal5Aw+oTPVzPx/kJ/+0MwM=; b=LY7xcc06Mx/lxr0w3ERPxoDbw5K/FOfnMjigTxe4rwQ/3L4I20VsbEsS7fG3x7qkLD MBIx7jbAPrRvHTu2I4G1i6MCN4jqdbtC5ukMXjJfkVH5CNcjSNxPiBG4eXJPXjG3lerK zJ1b5g0tsxK1cF/j93BcSnVXyQpmCjV7gpyxerFbMib/ryUVzxleIVt43eKdM7kjSjL/ w3bBne7VwQvTYVLKetDTHLR3ZJ7ZM5mPm0nF/2z3BlVhOaxB2RHxhBGK2VpGMts0Pljr mYoBiJ8f3pTyghv/GBEN3dGy0PtYnNOntlhEnU5CdAlNC6y5svLyHqYCtpK/eLCbr5hd S2tA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.87.6 with SMTP id t6mr7567587wiz.20.1443994760282; Sun, 04 Oct 2015 14:39:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <560DB972 DOT 30203 AT jump-ing DOT de> <201510012306 DOT t91N6MXc027775 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <560DCC35 DOT 9010505 AT jump-ing DOT de> <201510020041 DOT t920fM6o031268 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <560DE183 DOT 4060305 AT jump-ing DOT de> <5BF9C4DF-32C7-4C06-9F96-8F82C935254E AT sbcglobal DOT net> <560EAEE1 DOT 6020701 AT jump-ing DOT de> <3E72AC35-5862-41B9-A8FD-6804E89E9FFB AT sbcglobal DOT net> <20151003210144 DOT GA21262 AT localhost DOT localdomain> <56104E16 DOT 3050006 AT jump-ing DOT de> <20151003222928 DOT GC4287 AT localhost DOT localdomain> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 13:39:20 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [geda-user] Stop playing stupid political games with gEDA From: "Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0444ec07be8c4b05214e3aa5 Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk --f46d0444ec07be8c4b05214e3aa5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 7:22 PM, wrote: > > > On Sun, 4 Oct 2015, Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via > geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 2:48 AM, wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, 4 Oct 2015, Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via >>> geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Igor2 is off working on something using SDL because it is maintained >>>> but has a slower release cycle. The logical reason being that we don't >>>> really care about new gtk functionality but we have to burn time >>>> fixing things for each major gtk release. >>>> >>> >>> >>> SPOLIER ALERT: I am not talking about gschem or pcb here; I don't say >>> any of >>> the geda tools should or should not use gtk. I just share my personal >>> opinion about using gtk in general. I won't respond to text that ignores >>> this. >>> >>> Yes, I think GTK is a bad idea long term (for any application), and it's >>> not >>> qt that'd solve this. My resoning goes: >>> >> >> Google would agree with you they dumped it. >> >> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/03/12/0147256/google-to-replace-gtk-with-its-own-aura-in-chrome >> > > Nice! > > - GTK doesn't look native on anything else than gnome. Most other toolkits >>> have the same property: native only on one or on a few systems. So using >>> anything else doesn't make this worse or better. (If an app wants to look >>> native on multiple platforms, it needs multiple native GUI frontends, one >>> for each platform.) >>> >> >> MATE is actively developed and based on GTK2 (migrating slowly to >> GTK3) because the users and developers like GNOME2 and hated using >> OpenGL for everything the way GNOME3 does. >> > > SDL2 does this cleverly: you can chose, per window, to use software > rendering or acceleration, when you create the window. There are drawing > primitives that are compatible with both. I will make it possible for the > user to switch between sw rendering, hw accel and auto-select (default) at > application startup-time. > > >> I said earlier on the geda-developers list that a good blue sky >> project would be giving geda a way to have multiple GUI's like pcb >> does with hid. >> > > I second that. PCB benefits from having HIDs - not only because it makes > it easier to add a new HID, but I believe it made the code better by > inserting an API between the engine and the UI. I believe gschem could > benefit the same way. > Having spent some time in hid/ lately I strongly dislike the idea of more of that sort of thing. It adds zero new functionality, just allows people to doggedly cling to their favorite platform. The implementations behind the hid diverge and make every actual feature you might wand to fix or add harder. Gtk works. Gtk2 works. "It might break or go away 5 years from now" is not much of an argument for doing the big work required to support other things. --f46d0444ec07be8c4b05214e3aa5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 7:22 PM, <gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu>= wrote:


On Sun, 4 Oct 2015, Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:

On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 2:48 AM,=C2=A0 <gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu> wrote:


On Sun, 4 Oct 2015, Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via
geda-user AT delori= e.com] wrote:

<snip>

Igor2 is off working on something using SDL because it is maintained
but has a slower release cycle. The logical reason being that we don't<= br> really care about new gtk functionality but we have to burn time
fixing things for each major gtk release.


SPOLIER ALERT: I am not talking about gschem or pcb here; I don't say a= ny of
the geda tools should or should not use gtk. I just share my personal
opinion about using gtk in general. I won't respond to text that ignore= s
this.

Yes, I think GTK is a bad idea long term (for any application), and it'= s not
qt that'd solve this. My resoning goes:

Google would agree with you they dumped it.
htt= p://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/03/12/0147256/google-to-replace-gtk-with-its= -own-aura-in-chrome

 Nice!

- GTK doesn't look native on anything else than gnome. Most other toolk= its
have the same property: native only on one or on a few systems. So using anything else doesn't make this worse or better. (If an app wants to lo= ok
native on multiple platforms, it needs multiple native GUI frontends, one for each platform.)

MATE is actively developed and based on GTK2 (migrating slowly to
GTK3) because the users and developers like GNOME2 and hated using
OpenGL for everything the way GNOME3 does.

 SDL2 does this cleverly: you can chose, per window, to use software renderi= ng or acceleration, when you create the window. There are drawing primitive= s that are compatible with both. I will make it possible for the user to sw= itch between sw rendering, hw accel and auto-select (default) at applicatio= n startup-time.


I said earlier on the geda-developers list that a good blue sky
project would be giving geda a way to have multiple GUI's like pcb
does with hid.

 I second that. PCB benefits from having HIDs - not only because it makes it= easier to add a new HID, but I believe it made the code better by insertin= g an API between the engine and the UI. I believe gschem could benefit the = same way.

Having spent some = time in hid/ lately I strongly dislike the idea of more of that sort of thi= ng.=C2=A0 It adds zero new functionality, just allows people to doggedly cl= ing to their favorite platform.=C2=A0 The implementations behind the hid di= verge and make every actual feature you might wand to fix or add harder.=C2= =A0 Gtk works.=C2=A0 Gtk2 works. =C2=A0"It might break or go away 5 ye= ars from now" is not much of an argument for doing the big work requir= ed to support other things.
=C2=A0

--f46d0444ec07be8c4b05214e3aa5--