Mail Archives: geda-user/2017/07/19/14:35:14
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> On Jul 19, 2017, at 10:22 AM, Ouabache Designworks =
(z3qmtr45 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> =
wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 5:17 AM, Nicklas Karlsson =
(nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com <mailto:nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com>) =
[via geda-user AT delorie DOT com <mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com>] =
<geda-user AT delorie DOT com <mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com>> wrote:
>=20
> gschem is actually rather versatile. It works: circuit boards, cable =
drawings, VHDL, linuxcnc configuration, mathematica, tango, ... and =
should work whenever there is a need to draw a schematic with symbols =
there pins are connected together with lines, for example a hydraulic =
circuit. Is is possible assemble several signals into a bus which is =
like a cable with several strands.
>=20
> What attracted me to Cschem was the promise that it would be workflow =
agnostic. The problem with gschem,kicad and about all other schematic =
capture tools is that they are all designed to be PCB front end tools. =
You can have any feature as long as it would be useful in a PCB tool =
flow.
>=20
> We need a tool that is targeted to the embedded system architect that =
also supports state machines, flow charts etc. A tool for the architects =
would be a superset of all other engineering tools and would satisfy =
everyones needs. Make it modular so that it doesn't become bloated.
But that kind of flexibility is gschem=E2=80=99s strength. By =
coincidence, my work today involves drawing system diagrams in gschem =
(OK, actually lepton-schematic), exporting the connectivity to =
Mathematica (gnetlist -g mathematica). I then crunch those algebraicly =
through Laplace transforms and Mathematica=E2=80=99s system modeling =
stuff into discrete-time approximations suitable for CUDA =
implementation,
And then there=E2=80=99s this:
> From: John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com>
> Subject: Graphical Makefiles
> Date: October 12, 2015 at 11:52:43 AM MDT
> To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
>=20
>=20
> On Aug 25, 2015, at 4:23 PM, Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via =
geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>=20
>> I almost want to write a netlister that lets you move files and the
>> functions that process them around in a schematic so that you have a
>> graphical view of workflow.
>> gschem -> schematic file -> gnetlist -> makefile
>=20
> Try this:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Very alpha. Somewhat tested with 1.8.
And now, if you don=E2=80=99t like the Scheming necessary to implement =
such things, you have Roland=E2=80=99s version of gnetlist.
>=20
> IC designers abandoned schematic capture back in the early 90's when =
plopping down gates couldn't keep up with growing gate counts but in =
doing so the system architects lost a valuable tool for block diagrams.=20=
>=20
Depends on what kind of IC design you do. For mixed-signal, I still draw =
circuits.
> We need to get that back with Cschem. Open source is the only way to =
do it because a engineer can take their toolkit with them as they move =
between companies.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> It is a little bit hard to figure out what is wrong/missing in gschem:
> + Something make movement of symbols with connections a little =
cumbersome.
>=20
> The PCB world has a lot of great tools for moving parts on a board =
with a ratsnest, auto placing parts and autorouting. I would love to =
bring these into a schematic capture tool. Autorouting is a lot easier =
if you can cross lines and not make a connection unless you put a dot on =
it.
>=20
>=20
> =20
> + Then connecting from a bus it should be possible to select which =
signal should be used.
> + netlist so that available net could be listed and assigned =
attributes, not just net segments.
> + It should be possible to see names of nets in busses.
>=20
> gschem doesn't really have true busses. It has scalers and vectors. =
True busses would let you do all of that. IC design tools can do it but =
they never made it into the PCB world
>=20
> =20
> - Mapping of pins to footprints should be a plugin or backend, not =
all circuits need this.
> +- Available standard attributes would come from plugin or backend =
selected from symbol.
> 0 Choice between embed/link is already available.
> + bus pins.
> + backend may provide online design rule check.
> ? backend need to be available on context, different symbols have =
different backends to make list of available attributes or?
>=20
> =20
> I came to the conclusion gschem is very versatile with quite little =
missing but something is missing. To add support for different =
clearances between net a backend would be needed to specify clearances =
between nets but this only make sense for physical electric circuits. =
Support to select track width or cable dimension could could be done =
with the same approach. a netclass or track width attribute could be =
added to net as is today but it might be better to point the other =
direction and list the net names?
>=20
>=20
> Yes, Use Cschem for entry, editing and viewing. Use separate backend =
tools to o the real work.
>=20
>=20
> John Eaton
The basic approach in Lepton is to keep lepton-schematic clean and =
simple, add personalities with plug-ins the way we already do with =
gnetlist.
John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
http://www.noqsi.com/
jpd AT noqsi DOT com
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jul 19, 2017, at 10:22 AM, Ouabache Designworks (<a =
href=3D"mailto:z3qmtr45 AT gmail DOT com" class=3D"">z3qmtr45 AT gmail DOT com</a>) =
[via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" =
class=3D"">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] <<a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" =
class=3D"">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 5:17 AM, Nicklas Karlsson =
(<a href=3D"mailto:nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com" =
class=3D"">nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" =
class=3D"">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] <span dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><<a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>></span> wrote:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br class=3D"">
gschem is actually rather versatile. It works: circuit boards, cable =
drawings, VHDL, linuxcnc configuration, mathematica, tango, ... and =
should work whenever there is a need to draw a schematic with symbols =
there pins are connected together with lines, for example a hydraulic =
circuit. Is is possible assemble several signals into a bus which is =
like a cable with several strands.<br class=3D""></blockquote><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">What attracted me =
to Cschem was the promise that it would be workflow agnostic. The =
problem with gschem,kicad and about all other schematic capture tools is =
that they are all designed to be PCB front end tools. You can have any =
feature as long as it would be useful in a PCB tool flow.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">We need a tool that is =
targeted to the embedded system architect that also supports state =
machines, flow charts etc. A tool for the architects would be a superset =
of all other engineering tools and would satisfy everyones needs. Make =
it modular so that it doesn't become bloated.<br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>But that kind of flexibility is gschem=E2=80=99s =
strength. By coincidence, my work today involves drawing system diagrams =
in gschem (OK, actually lepton-schematic), exporting the connectivity to =
Mathematica (gnetlist -g mathematica). I then crunch those algebraicly =
through Laplace transforms and Mathematica=E2=80=99s system modeling =
stuff into discrete-time approximations suitable for CUDA =
implementation,</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>And then there=E2=80=99=
s this:</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">From: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">John Doty <<a href=3D"mailto:jpd AT noqsi DOT com" =
class=3D"">jpd AT noqsi DOT com</a>><br class=3D""></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Graphical Makefiles</b><br =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">Date: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">October 12, 2015 at 11:52:43 AM MDT<br =
class=3D""></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">To: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, =
sans-serif;" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" =
class=3D"">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a><br class=3D""></span></div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D"">On Aug 25, 2015, at 4:23 PM, =
Evan Foss (<a href=3D"mailto:evanfoss AT gmail DOT com" =
class=3D"">evanfoss AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" =
class=3D"">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] <<a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" =
class=3D"">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">I almost want to write a =
netlister that lets you move files and the<br class=3D"">functions that =
process them around in a schematic so that you have a<br =
class=3D"">graphical view of workflow.<br class=3D"">gschem -> =
schematic file -> gnetlist -> makefile<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">Try this:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=
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charset=utf-8
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">Very alpha. Somewhat tested with 1.8.<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote><br class=3D""></div><div>And now, if you =
don=E2=80=99t like the Scheming necessary to implement such things, you =
have Roland=E2=80=99s version of gnetlist.</div><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">IC designers abandoned schematic capture back in the early =
90's when plopping down gates couldn't keep up with growing gate counts =
but in doing so the system architects lost a valuable tool for block =
diagrams. <br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br =
class=3D""></div>Depends on what kind of IC design you do. For =
mixed-signal, I still draw circuits.</div><div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"">We need =
to get that back with Cschem. Open source is the only way to do it =
because a engineer can take their toolkit with them as they move between =
companies.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""> </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br class=3D"">
It is a little bit hard to figure out what is wrong/missing in =
gschem:<br class=3D"">
+ Something make movement of symbols with connections a little =
cumbersome.<br class=3D""></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The PCB world has a lot of great tools =
for moving parts on a board with a ratsnest, auto placing parts and =
autorouting. I would love to bring these into a schematic capture tool. =
Autorouting is a lot easier if you can cross lines and not make a =
connection unless you put a dot on it.<br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""> </div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">
+ Then connecting from a bus it should be possible to select which =
signal should be used.<br class=3D"">
+ netlist so that available net could be listed and assigned =
attributes, not just net segments.<br class=3D"">
+ It should be possible to see names of nets in busses.<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">gschem doesn't really have true busses. It has scalers and =
vectors. True busses would let you do all of that. IC design tools can =
do it but they never made it into the PCB world<br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""> </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
- Mapping of pins to footprints should be a plugin or backend, not =
all circuits need this.<br class=3D"">
+- Available standard attributes would come from plugin or backend =
selected from symbol.<br class=3D"">
0 Choice between embed/link is already available.<br class=3D"">
+ bus pins.<br class=3D"">
+ backend may provide online design rule check.<br class=3D"">
? backend need to be available on context, different symbols have =
different backends to make list of available attributes or?<br class=3D"">=
<br class=3D""></blockquote><div class=3D""> </div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">
I came to the conclusion gschem is very versatile with quite little =
missing but something is missing. To add support for different =
clearances between net a backend would be needed to specify clearances =
between nets but this only make sense for physical electric circuits. =
Support to select track width or cable dimension could could be done =
with the same approach. a netclass or track width attribute could be =
added to net as is today but it might be better to point the other =
direction and list the net names?<br class=3D"">
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Yes, Use Cschem for entry, editing and =
viewing. Use separate backend tools to o the real work.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">John Eaton<br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote><br class=3D""></div><div>The basic approach in Lepton is =
to keep lepton-schematic clean and simple, add personalities with =
plug-ins the way we already do with gnetlist.</div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
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style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica" class=3D"">John Doty<span =
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class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-tab"> <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span>Noqsi =
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0.0px 0.0px" class=3D""><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font:=
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