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Subject:	Re: [geda-user] [chscem] slow start
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On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 5:17 AM, Nicklas Karlsson (
nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <
geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:

>
> gschem is actually rather versatile. It works: circuit boards, cable
> drawings, VHDL, linuxcnc configuration, mathematica, tango, ... and should
> work whenever there is a need to draw a schematic with symbols there pins
> are connected together with lines, for example a hydraulic circuit. Is is
> possible assemble several signals into a bus which is like a cable with
> several strands.
>

What  attracted me to Cschem was the promise that it would be workflow
agnostic. The problem with gschem,kicad and about all other schematic
capture tools is that they are all designed to be PCB front end tools. You
can have any feature as long as it would be useful in a PCB tool flow.

We need a tool that is targeted to the embedded system architect that also
supports state machines, flow charts etc. A tool for the architects would
be a superset of all other engineering tools and would satisfy everyones
needs. Make it modular so that it doesn't become bloated.

IC designers abandoned schematic capture back in the early 90's when
plopping down gates couldn't keep up with growing gate counts but in doing
so the system architects lost a valuable tool for block diagrams.

We need to get that back with Cschem. Open source is the only way to do it
because a engineer can take their toolkit with them as they move between
companies.



>
> It is a little bit hard to figure out what is wrong/missing in gschem:
>  + Something make movement of symbols with connections a little cumbersome.
>

The PCB world has a lot of great tools for moving parts on a board with a
ratsnest, auto placing parts and autorouting. I would love to bring these
into a schematic capture tool. Autorouting is a lot easier if you can cross
lines and not make a connection unless you put a dot on it.




>  + Then connecting from a bus it should be possible to select which signal
> should be used.
>  + netlist so that available net could be listed and assigned attributes,
> not just net segments.
>  + It should be possible to see names of nets in busses.
>

gschem doesn't really have true busses. It has scalers and vectors. True
busses would let you do all of that. IC design tools can do it but they
never made it into the PCB world



>  - Mapping of pins to footprints should be a plugin or backend, not all
> circuits need this.
>  +- Available standard attributes would come from plugin or backend
> selected from symbol.
>  0 Choice between embed/link is already available.
>  + bus pins.
>  + backend may provide online design rule check.
>  ? backend need to be available on context, different symbols have
> different backends to make list of available attributes or?
>
>

> I came to the conclusion gschem is very versatile with quite little
> missing but something is missing. To add support for different clearances
> between net a backend would be needed to specify clearances between nets
> but this only make sense for physical electric circuits. Support to select
> track width or cable dimension could could be done with the same approach.
> a netclass or track width attribute could be added to net as is today but
> it might be better to point the other direction and list the net names?
>
>
Yes, Use Cschem for entry, editing and viewing. Use separate backend tools
to o the real work.


John Eaton

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 5:17 AM, Nicklas Karlsson (<a href=3D"mailto:ni=
cklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com">nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=
=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] <span dir=3D"l=
tr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-use=
r AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
gschem is actually rather versatile. It works: circuit boards, cable drawin=
gs, VHDL, linuxcnc configuration, mathematica, tango, ... and should work w=
henever there is a need to draw a schematic with symbols there pins are con=
nected together with lines, for example a hydraulic circuit. Is is possible=
 assemble several signals into a bus which is like a cable with several str=
ands.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>What=C2=A0 attracted me to Cschem=
 was the promise that it would be workflow agnostic. The problem with gsche=
m,kicad and about all other schematic capture tools is that they are all de=
signed to be PCB front end tools. You can have any feature as long as it wo=
uld be useful in a PCB tool flow.<br><br></div><div>We need a tool that is =
targeted to the embedded system architect that also supports state machines=
, flow charts etc. A tool for the architects would be a superset of all oth=
er engineering tools and would satisfy everyones needs. Make it modular so =
that it doesn&#39;t become bloated.<br><br></div><div>IC designers abandone=
d schematic capture back in the early 90&#39;s when plopping down gates cou=
ldn&#39;t keep up with growing gate counts but in doing so the system archi=
tects lost a valuable tool for block diagrams. <br></div><div><br></div><di=
v>We need to get that back with Cschem. Open source is the only way to do i=
t because a engineer can take their toolkit with them as they move between =
companies.<br></div><div><br>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
It is a little bit hard to figure out what is wrong/missing in gschem:<br>
=C2=A0+ Something make movement of symbols with connections a little cumber=
some.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The PCB world has a lot of great =
tools for moving parts on a board with a ratsnest, auto placing parts and a=
utorouting. I would love to bring these into a schematic capture tool. Auto=
routing is a lot easier if you can cross lines and not make a connection un=
less you put a dot on it.<br></div><div><br><br>=C2=A0</div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0+ Then connecting from a bus it should be possible to select which si=
gnal should be used.<br>
=C2=A0+ netlist so that available net could be listed and assigned attribut=
es, not just net segments.<br>
=C2=A0+ It should be possible to see names of nets in busses.<br></blockquo=
te><div><br></div><div>gschem doesn&#39;t really have true busses. It has s=
calers and vectors. True busses would let you do all of that. IC design too=
ls can do it but they never made it into the PCB world<br></div><div><br>=
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0- Mapping of pins to footprints should be a plugin or backend, not al=
l circuits need this.<br>
=C2=A0+- Available standard attributes would come from plugin or backend se=
lected from symbol.<br>
=C2=A00 Choice between embed/link is already available.<br>
=C2=A0+ bus pins.<br>
=C2=A0+ backend may provide online design rule check.<br>
=C2=A0? backend need to be available on context, different symbols have dif=
ferent backends to make list of available attributes or?<br>
<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I came to the conclusion gschem is very versatile with quite little missing=
 but something is missing. To add support for different clearances between =
net a backend would be needed to specify clearances between nets but this o=
nly make sense for physical electric circuits. Support to select track widt=
h or cable dimension could could be done with the same approach. a netclass=
 or track width attribute could be added to net as is today but it might be=
 better to point the other direction and list the net names?<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br></div></div></blockquote><div><=
br></div><div>Yes, Use Cschem for entry, editing and viewing. Use separate =
backend tools to o the real work.<br><br><br></div><div>John Eaton<br><br><=
/div><div><br><br><br>=C2=A0</div></div></div></div>

--001a113f0b8221c21c0554ae09a1--

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