Mail Archives: geda-user/2017/02/19/15:27:18
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Sure, I'm happy to help review.
This still wont solve the problem for the lesstif or gdk HIDs though, only
the GL hid.
--Chad
On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Peter Clifton (
petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <
geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
>
> On 19 Feb 2017 19:51, "Chad Parker (parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com) [via
> geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
> The problem with the code right now is that pins and pads don't actually
> exist on layers, they are separate. So, turning off a layer has no effect
> on pins or pads. Does your 3D stuff also rework that aspect of
> pins/pads/vias and the layer code?
>
>
> No, but it reworks the rendering stack extensively... for 3D view, it
> renders much more like a physical exporter than the traditional "gui"
> pipeline imposed by draw.c
>
> Any guess as to when it will arrive?
>
>
> Not exactly, but it is certainly high on my non - work related goals list
> for this year to see that code merged. (It has been out of mainline way too
> long).
>
> I can probably point you to a few bits and pieces where I could use help
> and code review if you like. I'm mid-attempt at rebasing the old patch
> series against HEAD, and one area which could really help (as I'm currently
> not designing any boards), is test-driving the result to validate the
> rebase.
>
> Peter
>
>
> --Chad
>
> On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Peter Clifton (
> petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <
> geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Chad,
>>
>> (Moving to geda-user as this is not directly answering the OP question)
>>
>> The later 3D stuff will help when it lands. There is a more physical view
>> mode where turning off individual layers also hides any features on that
>> layer such as pads etc..
>>
>> Otoh... the fact OP is having issues makes me wonder if they have GL
>> enabled or not. Transparency helps.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> On 19 Feb 2017 19:19, "Chad Parker (parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com) [via
>> geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>>
>> It took me a sec, but I figured out what he means. He's turning off the
>> pins/pads so that they're not in the way while he's routing on inner
>> layers.
>>
>> The problem is that when you turn off the pins/pads, it turns them off
>> for all layers. On the inner layers a plated thru-hole will (often) have a
>> circuilar pad around it, not to mention that there is actually a hole
>> through the board. With pins/pads off, there is no indication of this this
>> at all and you can route a trace straight through a through-hole with out
>> realizing it (or on the top or bottom layer too, actually).
>>
>> Hence the feature's he's asking for. If you could turn off surface mount
>> pads without turning off pins, then this wouldn't be a problem. Or, if we
>> had an "online-DRC" that would prevent you from drawing things that
>> violated design rules, it would also prevent you from doing this.
>>
>> The quickest fix for this, I think, is to change things slightly so that
>> pins and vias are grouped together for visibility and pads are their own
>> separate "layer". The right way to do this probably involves reworking the
>> layer system, but this is a pretty quick hack that should work for now.
>>
>> I opened a bug report on LaunchPad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb
>> /+bug/1666052
>>
>> --Chad
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 3:25 AM, Smilie (smilie AT posteo DOT de) [via
>> geda-help AT delorie DOT com] <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think, PCB need some additional features:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. split PIN/PAD Layer in two Buttons PIN and PAD.
>>> 2. make it possible, that the "auto enforce DRC clearance" works also
>>> while moving lines.
>>>
>>> 3. the algorithm for "auto enforce DRC clearance" could be modified,
>>> that the line will be lay around the barrier?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:28:44 +0000
>>> schrieb "Peter Clifton (petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via
>>> geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com>:
>>>
>>> > I think I'll have to try that to understand properly; but if you mean
>>> > - you accidentally shorted against pins which you had switched off
>>> > visibility for... Not sure how to avoid that fully.
>>> >
>>> > Perhaps need to separate the view controls a little more. In my later
>>> > 3D stuff (available on repo.or.cz), in 3D view turning off any layer
>>> > also hides things like copper pads on that layer.
>>> >
>>> > Peter
>>> >
>>> > Peter
>>> >
>>> > On 15 Feb 2017 15:19, "Smilie (smilie AT posteo DOT de) [via
>>> > geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:48:02 +0000
>>> > > schrieb "Peter Clifton (petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via
>>> > > geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com>:
>>> > >
>>> > > > Any chance you can post a screenshot of what you describe?
>>> > > >
>>> > > > (Imagebin.ca or similar if the files are big?)
>>> > > >
>>> > > > On 15 Feb 2017 10:45, "Smilie (smilie AT posteo DOT de) [via
>>> > > > geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > > Hello guys,
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > if i have an Jumper connected through all layers.
>>> > > > > But if i disable the view of all layers, apart from a inner
>>> > > > > signal-layer, the contacts of the connected through is not
>>> > > > > visible. This is in my opinion a bug.
>>> > > > > Or what is this feature for?
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > lg
>>> > > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > OK, i see the Failure, but i will explain the situation.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Step by step:
>>> > >
>>> > > 1. create a new pcb.
>>> > >
>>> > > 2. Load a Jumper1 and place it to the board.
>>> > >
>>> > > 3. Take also some SMD-footprints an place it free over the board.
>>> > >
>>> > > Now you wont draw a line in a (signal) middle layer, but the
>>> > > SMD-Footprints are worry. Because this you make some layers
>>> > > invisible.
>>> > >
>>> > > 4. Now you make the pins/pads invisible. Or what?
>>> > >
>>> > > But, you can not free draw the middle layer, because you have
>>> > > collisions with footprints like Jumper1.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Sure, I'm happy to help review.<br><br></div=
>This still wont solve the problem for the lesstif or gdk HIDs though, only=
the GL hid.<br><br></div>--Chad<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Peter Clifton (<a=
href=3D"mailto:petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com">petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT co=
m</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com<=
/a>] <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=
=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><span class=3D""><div><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 19 Feb 2017 19:51, "Chad =
Parker (<a href=3D"mailto:parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com" target=3D"_blank">parke=
r DOT charles AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>]" <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-u=
ser AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:<br =
type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"m_-1976021762577280436quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div>The problem with the code right now is that pins and pads do=
n't actually exist on layers, they are separate. So, turning off a laye=
r has no effect on pins or pads. Does your 3D stuff also rework that aspect=
of pins/pads/vias and the layer code?</div></div></blockquote></div></div>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div></span><div dir=3D"auto">No, but it rewor=
ks the rendering stack extensively... for 3D view, it renders much more lik=
e a physical exporter than the traditional "gui" pipeline imposed=
by draw.c</div><span class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"au=
to"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=
=3D"m_-1976021762577280436quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px=
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div> Any guess as to when i=
t will arrive?<font color=3D"#888888"><br></font></div></div></blockquote><=
/div></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div></span><div dir=3D"auto">Not e=
xactly, but it is certainly high on my non - work related goals list for th=
is year to see that code merged. (It has been out of mainline way too long)=
.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I can probably point y=
ou to a few bits and pieces where I could use help and code review if you l=
ike. I'm mid-attempt at rebasing the old patch series against HEAD, and=
one area which could really help (as I'm currently not designing any b=
oards), is test-driving the result to validate the rebase.</div><span class=
=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto">Peter</div></font></span><div><div class=3D"h5"><div dir=3D"auto"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><blockquote class=3D"m_-1976021762577280436quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><=
font color=3D"#888888"><br></font></div><font color=3D"#888888">--Chad<br><=
/font></div><div class=3D"m_-1976021762577280436elided-text"><div class=3D"=
gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 2:25 PM=
, Peter Clifton (<a href=3D"mailto:petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com" target=3D=
"_blank">petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com</a><wbr>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:ged=
a-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] <span dir=
=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">ged=
a-user AT delorie DOT com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=
<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Chad,<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">(Mo=
ving to geda-user as this is not directly answering the OP question)<br><di=
v dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The later 3D stuff will help whe=
n it lands. There is a more physical view mode where turning off individual=
layers also hides any features on that layer such as pads etc..</div><div =
dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Otoh... the fact OP is having issu=
es makes me wonder if they have GL enabled or not. Transparency helps.</div=
><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Peter</div><div dir=3D"auto"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Peter</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div></div><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 19 Feb 20=
17 19:19, "Chad Parker (<a href=3D"mailto:parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-h=
elp AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>]" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT c=
om</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"m_-197602176=
2577280436m_-1478200450418684039m_6660508985195357959quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div><div><div>It took me a sec, but I figured out what he means.=C2=A0He=
9;s turning off the pins/pads so that they're not in the way while he&#=
39;s routing on inner layers. <br><br>The
problem is that when you turn off the pins/pads, it turns them off for=20
all layers. On the inner layers a plated thru-hole will (often) have a=20
circuilar pad around it, not to mention that there is actually a hole=20
through the board. With pins/pads off, there is no indication of this=20
this at all and you can route a trace straight through a through-hole=20
with out realizing it (or on the top or bottom layer too, actually).<br><br=
></div>Hence the feature's he's asking for. If you could turn off s=
urface mount pads without turning off pins, then this wouldn't be a pro=
blem. Or, if we had an "online-DRC" that would prevent you from d=
rawing things that violated design rules, it would also prevent you from do=
ing this.<br><br></div>The quickest fix for this, I think, is to change thi=
ngs slightly so that pins and vias are grouped together for visibility and =
pads are their own separate "layer". The right way to do this pro=
bably involves reworking the layer system, but this is a pretty quick hack =
that should work for now. <br><br></div><div>I opened a bug report on Launc=
hPad: <a href=3D"https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb/+bug/1666052" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb<wbr>/+bug/1666052</a><br></div><br>--Ch=
ad<br></div><div class=3D"m_-1976021762577280436m_-1478200450418684039m_666=
0508985195357959elided-text"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote">On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 3:25 AM, Smilie (<a href=3D"mailto:smil=
ie AT posteo DOT de" target=3D"_blank">smilie AT posteo DOT de</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailt=
o:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>] <span=
dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank"=
>geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex">I think, PCB need some additional features:<br>
<br>
<br>
1. split PIN/PAD Layer in two Buttons PIN and PAD.<br>
2. make it possible, that the "auto enforce DRC clearance" works =
also<br>
while moving lines.<br>
<br>
3. the algorithm for "auto enforce DRC clearance" could be modifi=
ed,<br>
that the line will be lay around the barrier?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:28:44 +0000<br>
<div class=3D"m_-1976021762577280436m_-1478200450418684039m_666050898519535=
7959m_602141869714698789HOEnZb"><div class=3D"m_-1976021762577280436m_-1478=
200450418684039m_6660508985195357959m_602141869714698789h5">schrieb "P=
eter Clifton (<a href=3D"mailto:petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com" target=3D"_b=
lank">petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com</a><wbr>) [via<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delori=
e.com</a>]" <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>>:<br>
<br>
> I think I'll have to try that to understand properly; but if you m=
ean<br>
> - you accidentally shorted against pins which you had switched off<br>
> visibility for... Not sure how to avoid that fully.<br>
><br>
> Perhaps need to separate the view controls a little more. In my later<=
br>
> 3D stuff (available on <a href=3D"http://repo.or.cz" rel=3D"noreferrer=
" target=3D"_blank">repo.or.cz</a>), in 3D view turning off any layer<br>
> also hides things like copper pads on that layer.<br>
><br>
> Peter<br>
><br>
> Peter<br>
><br>
> On 15 Feb 2017 15:19, "Smilie (<a href=3D"mailto:smilie AT posteo DOT de=
" target=3D"_blank">smilie AT posteo DOT de</a>) [via<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT d=
elorie.com</a>]" <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=
=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> > Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:48:02 +0000<br>
> > schrieb "Peter Clifton (<a href=3D"mailto:petercjclifton AT goo=
glemail.com" target=3D"_blank">petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com</a><wbr>) [via=
<br>
> > <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-h=
elp AT delorie DOT com</a>]" <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>>:<br>
> ><br>
> > >=C2=A0 Any chance you can post a screenshot of what you descr=
ibe?<br>
> > ><br>
> > > (Imagebin.ca or similar if the files are big?)<br>
> > ><br>
> > > On 15 Feb 2017 10:45, "Smilie (<a href=3D"mailto:smilie=
@posteo.de" target=3D"_blank">smilie AT posteo DOT de</a>) [via<br>
> > > <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">g=
eda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>]" <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delorie DOT com=
" target=3D"_blank">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > > Hello guys,<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > if i have an Jumper connected through all layers.<br>
> > > > But if i disable the view of all layers, apart from a i=
nner<br>
> > > > signal-layer, the contacts of the connected through is =
not<br>
> > > > visible. This is in my opinion a bug.<br>
> > > > Or what is this feature for?<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > lg<br>
> > > ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > OK, i see the Failure, but i will explain the situation.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Step by step:<br>
> ><br>
> > 1. create a new pcb.<br>
> ><br>
> > 2. Load a Jumper1 and place it to the board.<br>
> ><br>
> > 3. Take also some SMD-footprints an place it free over the board.=
<br>
> ><br>
> > Now you wont draw a line in a (signal) middle layer, but the<br>
> > SMD-Footprints are worry. Because this you make some layers<br>
> > invisible.<br>
> ><br>
> > 4. Now you make the pins/pads invisible. Or what?<br>
> ><br>
> > But, you can not free draw the middle layer, because you have<br>
> > collisions with footprints like Jumper1.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
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