Mail Archives: geda-user/2015/12/31/21:00:28
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On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 5:32 PM, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote:
>
> On Dec 29, 2015, at 5:56 PM, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via
> geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote
>
> Pcb is fine.
>
> Baloney. For example, for years I=E2=80=99ve been hearing that users want=
buried
> vias. A sanely designed tool wouldn=E2=80=99t prevent a user from simply =
drawing a
> buried via, even if it didn=E2=80=99t have such a concept built in. Pcb d=
oesn=E2=80=99t
> properly model the job it=E2=80=99s supposed to do.
>
As you've been told before, lots of boards are made. There's a patch for
buried via. And I assume by draw you mean something entirely different,
since a constructive EDA like you seem to want would be fully 3D
>
> It has all the users.
>
>
> Almost all of them do their drawing with gschem, but if you read this
> list, almost all of the trouble they have is with pcb. Gschem works well,
> but pcb doesn=E2=80=99t. We really need a decent free/open layout program=
.
>
No, they all say they've made dozens or hundreds of boards. You seem to
like to get attention by repeatedly publicly insulting software in which
many of the people on this list have invested significantly. It's hard to
ignore because you damage the software when you do that. Nice trick.
pcb is way more complicated, because what it's trying to do is way harder.
gschem is relatively trivial.
> The pcb bias you constantly cry about is very real for that reason.
>
>
> That makes no sense. Pcb is dependent on geda-gaf to be useful. Geda-gaf
> is useful without pcb.
>
Nope, some people don't even bother with gschem. If I was starting out now
I probably wouldn't either. I like Mychelles way better in principle.
And the question is not theoretical independence, but actual overlap of the
user base
>
> There=E2=80=99s nothing to keep my collaborators and layout contractors f=
rom using
> pcb. They know of it but it doesn=E2=80=99t look useful to them. I=E2=80=
=99ve exported
>
Well if they already use something else, of course. All the layout
programs are complex pieces of software with significant learning curves.
Britton
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 5:32 PM, John Doty <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:jpd AT noqsi DOT com" target=3D"_blank">jpd AT noqsi DOT com</a>></span> w=
rote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde=
r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"=
><br><div><div>On Dec 29, 2015, at 5:56 PM, Britton Kerin (<a href=3D"mailt=
o:britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com" target=3D"_blank">britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com</a>) [=
via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT de=
lorie.com</a>] <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blan=
k">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote</div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>Pcb =
is fine.=C2=A0</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>Baloney. For exampl=
e, for years I=E2=80=99ve been hearing that users want buried vias. A sanel=
y designed tool wouldn=E2=80=99t prevent a user from simply drawing a burie=
d via, even if it didn=E2=80=99t have such a concept built in. Pcb doesn=E2=
=80=99t properly model the job it=E2=80=99s supposed to do.</div></div></di=
v></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">As you've been told befor=
e, lots of boards are made.=C2=A0 There's a patch for buried via.=C2=A0=
And I assume by draw you mean something entirely different, since a constr=
uctive EDA like you seem to want would be fully 3D</div><div>=C2=A0</div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><div>=
<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_ex=
tra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div> It has all the users.</div></div></di=
v></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Almost all of them do their drawing wit=
h gschem, but if you read this list, almost all of the trouble they have is=
with pcb. Gschem works well, but pcb doesn=E2=80=99t. We really need a dec=
ent free/open layout program.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div s=
tyle=3D"">No, they all say they've made dozens or hundreds of boards.=
=C2=A0 You seem to like to get attention by repeatedly publicly insulting s=
oftware in which many of the people on this list have invested significantl=
y.=C2=A0 It's hard to ignore because you damage the software when you d=
o that.=C2=A0 Nice trick.</div><div style=3D""><br></div><div style=3D"">pc=
b is way more complicated, because what it's trying to do is way harder=
. =C2=A0gschem is relatively trivial.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><=
div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>=C2=A0 =
The pcb bias you constantly cry about is very real for that reason.</div></=
div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>That makes no sense. Pcb is dep=
endent on geda-gaf to be useful. Geda-gaf is useful without pcb.<br></div><=
/div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">Nope, some people don'=
t even bother with gschem.=C2=A0 If I was starting out now I probably would=
n't either. =C2=A0 I like Mychelles way better in principle.</div><div =
style=3D"">And the question is not theoretical independence, but actual ove=
rlap of the user base=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=
=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><div><br></div></div><div>There=E2=80=99s no=
thing to keep my collaborators and layout contractors from using pcb. They =
know of it but it doesn=E2=80=99t look useful to them. I=E2=80=99ve exporte=
d</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">Well if they alrea=
dy use something else, of course.=C2=A0 All the layout programs are complex=
pieces of software with significant learning curves.</div><div><br></div><=
div style=3D"">=C2=A0Britton</div></div><br></div></div>
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