Mail Archives: geda-user/2015/12/22/22:18:22
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On Dec 22, 2015, at 7:46 PM, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) =
[via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 5:25 PM, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote:
>=20
> On Dec 22, 2015, at 6:48 PM, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) =
[via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>> As for refusing code because it doesn't fit the vision, gEDA isn't in =
a good position to do this.
> Geda-gaf is in an excellent position to do this. It=92s mature, =
effective, and flexible. It could be better, but making it better =
requires discipline more than lines of code. It=92s *hard* to make good =
code better: it=92s much easier to make it worse.
>=20
> But they aren't modifying it with the intention of making it worse,
The universe does not care about intentions.
> and on the average there's no real reason to assume the "leader" is =
going to be a better judge than the contributor, especially on the issue =
the contributor is trying to address. All FOSS works essentially on =
this principle. If you don't like it perhaps FOSS isn't for you.
There are some very stable FOSS products. Python 3 developers are =
unhappy that Python 2.7 is defacto the eternal version. That=92s their =
problem.
One of the reasons that gEDA was so attractive to an old Viewlogic user =
like me was its stability. In Viewlogic, there was constant feature =
churn, together with a constant addition of novel bugs. The sales =
department always wants NEW! But we don=92t have a sales department, so =
we don=92t have to change things that don=92t need changing.
>> It makes devels quit and there aren't that many to begin with.
>=20
> On the other hand, pcb suffers from a lack of discipline. I find it an =
unusable conceptual tangle. The problem is not a lack of developers, but =
the lack of a vision. To the user, it=92s just a random grab bag of =
features.
>=20
> But because you don't use it, nobody takes your opinions about it =
seriously.
You don=92t. I know that some others do. If you want to attract more =
users, it might make sense to pay attention to the reasons that people =
don=92t use it.
John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
http://www.noqsi.com/
jpd AT noqsi DOT com
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><br><div><div>On Dec 22, 2015, at 7:46 PM, Britton =
Kerin (<a =
href=3D"mailto:britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com">britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com</a>) =
[via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] =
<<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>>=
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 5:25 PM, John Doty <span =
dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:jpd AT noqsi DOT com" =
target=3D"_blank">jpd AT noqsi DOT com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div =
style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><br><div><div>On Dec 22, 2015, at 6:48 =
PM, Britton Kerin (<a href=3D"mailto:britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com" =
target=3D"_blank">britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" =
target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] <<a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" =
target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><span =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-varia=
nt:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text=
-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">As for refusing code =
because it doesn't fit the vision, gEDA isn't in a good position to do =
this.</span></blockquote>Geda-gaf is in an excellent position to do =
this. It=92s mature, effective, and flexible. It could be better, but =
making it better requires discipline more than lines of code. It=92s =
*hard* to make good code better: it=92s much easier to make it =
worse.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">But they =
aren't modifying it with the intention of making it =
worse,</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>The universe =
does not care about intentions.</div><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div style=3D""> and on the average there's no =
real reason to assume the "leader" is going to be a better judge than =
the contributor, especially on the issue the contributor is trying to =
address. All FOSS works essentially on this principle. If =
you don't like it perhaps FOSS isn't for =
you.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>There are some =
very stable FOSS products. Python 3 developers are unhappy that Python =
2.7 is defacto the eternal version. That=92s their =
problem.</div><div><br></div><div>One of the reasons that gEDA was so =
attractive to an old Viewlogic user like me was its stability. In =
Viewlogic, there was constant feature churn, together with a constant =
addition of novel bugs. The sales department always wants NEW! But we =
don=92t have a sales department, so we don=92t have to change things =
that don=92t need changing.</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div =
style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-varia=
nt:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text=
-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-s=
pacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important"> It makes devels =
quit and there aren't that many to begin =
with.</span></blockquote></div><div>On the other hand, pcb suffers from =
a lack of discipline. I find it an unusable conceptual tangle. The =
problem is not a lack of developers, but the lack of a vision. To the =
user, it=92s just a random grab bag of =
features.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">But =
because you don't use it, nobody takes your opinions about it =
seriously.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>You don=92t.=
I know that some others do. If you want to attract more users, it might =
make sense to pay attention to the reasons that people don=92t use =
it.</div><div><br></div><div apple-content-edited=3D"true">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><p style=3D"margin: =
0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">John Doty<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-tab"> <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span>Noqsi =
Aerospace, Ltd.</font></p><p style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px =
0.0px"><a href=3D"http://www.noqsi.com/">http://www.noqsi.com/</a></p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica"><a =
href=3D"mailto:jpd AT noqsi DOT com">jpd AT noqsi DOT com</a></font></p><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></span>
</div>
<br></body></html>=
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