X-Authentication-Warning:	delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f
X-Recipient:	geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Original-DKIM-Signature:	v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
	d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
	h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject
	:from:to:content-type;
	bh=2AxD4rQtU1zmuhhwuCaebR7rfTUQpviLj11sMo8OHdE=;
	b=NmYEoLXSNPcjKBvc+dcdihXo7okcvDhhz9iwBmSAHHIos4Aa+iciMZgHC+aPaMd1CC
	Pe/WqBILU7SWk3o6U1kC0+VkwTPxvoIMPFSAyAnTAg/7LwSRbzIbNihFZo8fRQbnSLep
	8ZkiBwjp3nFRUO4QtfhF88jAQrjRb0Hcj+gl2SROYg8MGsoNQhvlepvOy2souQXSgtti
	PxIjhldauPiIQCzXtzvFCtQEbYp9w65HiLBXuSig3WPadNdx3EQkQ8kSlfURZX+ItPXN
	mbwpWwioeRUV7OjYRT36/7Gk8if4KtQYOhgzxznfT+b2JrRSOJBEjyQv/QUbtGVnYqyk
	TRXw==
MIME-Version:	1.0
X-Received:	by 10.202.206.22 with SMTP id e22mr1857009oig.132.1444245138953;
	Wed, 07 Oct 2015 12:12:18 -0700 (PDT)
Sender:	svenn DOT bjerkem AT gmail DOT com
In-Reply-To:	<alpine.DEB.2.00.1510071600380.7137@igor2priv>
References:	<201510020041 DOT t920fM6o031268 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com>
	<560DE183 DOT 4060305 AT jump-ing DOT de>
	<5BF9C4DF-32C7-4C06-9F96-8F82C935254E AT sbcglobal DOT net>
	<560EAEE1 DOT 6020701 AT jump-ing DOT de>
	<3E72AC35-5862-41B9-A8FD-6804E89E9FFB AT sbcglobal DOT net>
	<20151003210144 DOT GA21262 AT localhost DOT localdomain>
	<56104E16 DOT 3050006 AT jump-ing DOT de>
	<20151003222928 DOT GC4287 AT localhost DOT localdomain>
	<CAM2RGhSuaNy3PQ7CJJjTbzTM6TckNGRShobchRj42Vk10ixPGQ AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<alpine DOT DEB DOT 2 DOT 00 DOT 1510040356140 DOT 7137 AT igor2priv>
	<20151007134152 DOT 9597 DOT qmail AT stuge DOT se>
	<alpine DOT DEB DOT 2 DOT 00 DOT 1510071600380 DOT 7137 AT igor2priv>
Date:	Wed, 7 Oct 2015 21:12:18 +0200
X-Google-Sender-Auth:	m44uk1sf1aWfIFq-fGkontun-4I
Message-ID:	<CAGde_xP3DxOLxWSnddpdRwcnfuEYLKekS6q5er8fGvbmyvmBdg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject:	Re: [geda-user] Stop playing stupid political games with gEDA
From:	"Svenn Are Bjerkem (svenn DOT bjerkem AT googlemail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
To:	geda-user <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
Reply-To:	geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Errors-To:	nobody AT delorie DOT com
X-Mailing-List:	geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Unsubscribes-To:	listserv AT delorie DOT com

--001a113adee679e14b0521888691
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 7 October 2015 at 16:21, <gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu> wrote:

> I am not against change, if it's driven by a real need. What I dislike is
> changing the GUI [in an app] not because we want to change it, not because
> we want to have a better GUI or want to exploit the new features, but
> because the GUI has a newer version and the old version we use is simply
> obsolete and will not be easily available in the near future.
>

What you describe here happened to qucs when qt3 faded. The port to qt4 was
not trivial and several people burned-out in the process. Qt4 didn't add
significant features to me as an end user which couldn't have been solved
with qt3. Now qt5 is supposed to be easier to port to from qt4, but so far
qucs is not on qt5. Maybe it happens when qt4 fades.


>
> I also find it unsustainable long term that GUI libs get more and more
> complex potentially causing application developers to spend more and more
> time on just keeping up with their changes. I know this is an unpopular
> opinion, especially from end user's perspective.
>

The end user who wants to get things done hardly complains about missing
eye candy. Xemacs hasn't changed very much in GUI and neither has vim.
Modelsim use Tcl/Tk for their GUI, and even if it is not translucent, I
create mega-buck products with this archaic GUI. I can even script it with
Tcl. And Tcl hasn't changed much in decades.

Anyway, I am using openbox on LXDE so I basically miss all the GNOME and
KDE fancy features. No big loss, they never made me productive same way
windows never made me productive. But in the end the big question is: Who
is supposed to be satisfied with an application?

-- 
Svenn

--001a113adee679e14b0521888691
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On 7 October 2015 at 16:21,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gedau@=
igor2.repo.hu" target=3D"_blank">gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<=
br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div id=3D":4r2" class=3D"a3s" style=3D"o=
verflow:hidden">I am not against change, if it&#39;s driven by a real need.=
 What I dislike is changing the GUI [in an app] not because we want to chan=
ge it, not because we want to have a better GUI or want to exploit the new =
features, but because the GUI has a newer version and the old version we us=
e is simply obsolete and will not be easily available in the near future.<b=
r></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>What you describe here happened to=
 qucs when qt3 faded. The port to qt4 was not trivial and several people bu=
rned-out in the process. Qt4 didn&#39;t add significant features to me as a=
n end user which couldn&#39;t have been solved with qt3. Now qt5 is suppose=
d to be easier to port to from qt4, but so far qucs is not on qt5. Maybe it=
 happens when qt4 fades.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x"><div id=3D":4r2" class=3D"a3s" style=3D"overflow:hidden">
<br>
I also find it unsustainable long term that GUI libs get more and more comp=
lex potentially causing application developers to spend more and more time =
on just keeping up with their changes. I know this is an unpopular opinion,=
 especially from end user&#39;s perspective.<span class=3D""><br></span></d=
iv></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div>The end user who=
 wants to get things done hardly complains about missing eye candy. Xemacs =
hasn&#39;t changed very much in GUI and neither has vim. Modelsim use Tcl/T=
k for their GUI, and even if it is not translucent, I create mega-buck prod=
ucts with this archaic GUI. I can even script it with Tcl. And Tcl hasn&#39=
;t changed much in decades.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Anyway, I am using openbox on LXDE so I basical=
ly miss all the GNOME and KDE fancy features. No big loss, they never made =
me productive same way windows never made me productive. But in the end the=
 big question is: Who is supposed to be satisfied with an application?<br><=
/div><div><br></div>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_signature">Svenn</div></div>

--001a113adee679e14b0521888691--

- Raw text -