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Date:	Mon, 14 Sep 2015 15:26:20 -0400
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Subject:	Re: PLEASE STOP !!! - Re: [geda-user] Apollon
From:	"Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
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On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 2:10 AM, Vaclav Peroutka (vaclavpe AT seznam DOT cz)
[via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
<snip>

>
> How does it correspond to geda users ? I would understand that this kind of
> info is needed for developers. But from user's point of view ? Users want to
> download software and just use it. Users want to notice bugfixes. Users want
> to see new features to increase their productivity.

1. No one talks on the developers email list. (I actually forgot it
existed and I am on it because there is almost zero traffic.)
2. Not everyone who should be is on the developers list is because
some folks wanted to play gate keeper. This killed off trolling and
flame wars but it killed off all other discourse for some reason.
3. There is already a serious split in motivations between the
developers and the users. The developers might not like hearing the
roar of the crowd but the users input needs to be in *some* of this
discussion.
4. Yes after an objective is set it should be migrated over to the
developers list but I have avoided this because I think a lot of
people there want to be left alone.

> I am user of geda (scm, pcb) more than 10 years. I did first experiments in
> year 2003. And what is the current situation ? Recently somebody wrote that
> Kicad still evolves, there are new releases.  It seems to me that geda
> developers talk what to do but nothing new is being developed. I tried to
> contribute the way I was able to. I filled in several bug reports. One year

Ok I just searched the launchpad for your bugs (your name and your
email address) and did not find them.

Is this your bug?
http://archives.seul.org/geda/user/Apr-2010/msg00003.html

> is gone but nothing happened. But I receive 100 emails from geda-user
> mailing list every day. 90 emails are various flame wars.

I think that is a bit high. 60 of them are flame war fodder. 40 are
people just trying to discuss what the future should look like.

> I do not know how many real users are here. But for all PLEASE - stop
> flamewars in this list. Let somebody create geda-thrashcan list. Or some
> similar. If you want to talk about how to implement features, about how to
> rewrite the geda core - please move to geda-devel list.

I tried to start a flame war specific thread and that failed. I think
it failed because of the over whelming cultural issue in our geda
community.

I left "developer excitement? was Re: [geda-user] gEDA/gschem still
alive?" feeling like we were on track to do something and then ran
into "[geda-user] New experimental netlist features" which devolved
into a re-re-re-rehash of every old fight + ageism.

In my first 3 drafts of this I tried to summarize my view on
where/how/why but really I am also burned out on how this list runs
and how receptive people are to things. I need the list as a sounding
board but I can't use it that way because when ever I do I get people
who are uncompromising and that leads to a flamewar. I feel like there
are agendas behind everything that are not stated. The amount of care
I have to put into writing just to be sure not to start a fight is
ridiculous. I am remembering now why I spent all those years as a user
and not a contributor.

> If you want to fix bugs (unfortunately I am not able to. I even have not
> succeeded to compile geda for Windows...), please DO IT. If you want to
> implement functionality which increases productivity of at least something
> (improve moving of components, etc.) please DO IT. I will be the first
> person who will thank you.

Odd I don't have issues moving components. I do not see any bug
reports regarding this can you be more descriptive in another thread
or a report on launchpad? I do wish we had the ability to nudge traces
though.

> I have not used Kicad. But I used Orcad 16.5 and Zuken cr5000. I am sure
> that there are several features and functionality that can be added to geda
> (routing of high frequency pairs, measurement of track length, routing of
> busses, ... ).

One or two of the threads going around are Igor2, John Doty, and
myself working on stuff that leads up to that.

-- 
Home
http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/
Work
http://forge.abcd.harvard.edu/gf/project/epl_engineering/wiki/

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