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Date:	Sun, 6 Sep 2015 15:47:57 +0000
Message-ID:	<CAM2RGhSMmGXFhXPA7QGGdEgaYh7qH2NziqpSDLZFkcRjpKFomg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject:	Re: [geda-user] New experimental netlist features
From:	"Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
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On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 7:39 AM, Vladimir Zhbanov (vzhbanov AT gmail DOT com)
[via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 11:35:49PM +0000, Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
> ...
>> You have my agreement until you get to scheme. Irrespective of
>> technical attracting new developers is harder when you are using a
>> language that is itself falling in popularity. It is just another
>> barrier to entry for new contributors. Most people already know C
>> almost no one comes to this project already knowing scheme.
> Some fifteen years ago, in my DOS/Windows life, nobody around me
> programmed in C. What I saw were Pascal/Delphy, various Basic's and
> Assemblers. After moving on Linux, I found C is everywhere, beginning
> from kernel. Again, around me Unix/Linux is a marginal stuff.
>>
>> Even John Dotty seemed to agree that we need an alternative to scheme.
> Yes, yes, I could even agree ;) But not two parallel versions with new
> dependencies in one repository. How to support them? How to support
> cross-compiling in this case? There is another way. Let's make bindings
> for various languages since gobject model allows this. Let's introduce
> plugins/modules, and we already have modules in scheme.

No one is asking you to support Igor2's pcb-rnd.

> OTOH, the first program where I've seen and tried to use guile was gimp.
> Look at it. They started from scheme and now support python and perl.
>   http://wiki.gimp.org/wiki/Hacking:Plugins
> No revolution, no destroying.  And that is the most successful
> open-source project in this niche I know of.

I assume that at some point someone will carry Igor2's gpmi code from
pcb-rnd over to the pcb mainline. I have my misgivings about making
gpmi an optional dependency of libgeda but it makes sense to have
gschem and pcb have the same dependencies.

It is not my intention to nuke scheme. People have written stuff for
it but we should have *something* else in parallel.

>> > OK, I see the message. Get out, stupid ancient fools, your time is
>> > out ;) The new generation is coming...
>>
>> For quite a while there the message the developers were sending was...
>> Stay away you newcomers, we know the user base wants this but they
>> don't understand the tool as well as we do. The users are a collection
>> of
> Partially agreed, though it's only one part of the story. Another part
> is, nobody wants to rewrite sloppy written/bug prone stuff. And some
> new developers just excuse their fear/reluctance to make code more
> accurate with the thesis that the major developers are cruel/arrogant
> etc.

I agree with that statement. The current bout of hostility has an
intergenerational tone to it.

>>
>> Igor2 started this fork because people were unwilling to accept his
>> contributions. Looking back the same people drove me out too. Lets not
>> start that again.
> And because he prefers to stand apart from the community requiring the
> majority to follow his preferences in order to collaborate.

Ok yes I wish that other people would not only work for free but also
do it the way I want. However, he is actively coding useful
functionality and there are a lot of people who are just messing up
the SNR on this list.

> Cheers,
>   Vladimir

I agree with you for the most part. Perhaps before I get too far into
libgeda+gpmi I should ask the dev list what they think should happen?




-- 
Home
http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/
Work
http://forge.abcd.harvard.edu/gf/project/epl_engineering/wiki/

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