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Date: | Tue, 25 Aug 2015 01:21:58 +0000 |
Message-ID: | <CAM2RGhRrSCWd09zB_eUD4B984P+71W70=AqF_KN1XnpgpUvJQQ@mail.gmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: [geda-user] Buttons for automation (obligatory grab at our shared |
3rd rail) Re: [geda-user] Antifork | |
From: | "Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> |
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On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:03 AM, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote: > > On Aug 24, 2015, at 8:33 PM, DJ Delorie <dj AT delorie DOT com> wrote: > >> >>> Adding features to a simple tool does not make it easier to use. >> >> Except we don't have a simple tool, we have *many* simple tools. The >> large number of tools causes its own complexity. And we've seen that >> new users find "the toolkit way" to be difficult to learn > > That’s your perception. To be sure, there will be a faction that will have that trouble, but that’s not a good reason to work against those who do *better* with a toolkit. KiCAD covers the integrated tool space: gEDA should not be “me too”, but “here’s an approach you may find better”. +1 >> because it's >> not obvious how all the parts work together > > But it’s worse with a complex tool, because then it’s harder to figure out the interactions of all of the features. At least with a toolkit there are interfaces. That disciplines the interactions. +1 This is what drove me away from my last tool and too gEDA. >> - There's too much >> complexity to absorb. >> >> Managing the relationships between tools, and encapsulating the >> overall tasks we want to accomplish, is a neccessary part of using a >> toolkit - it's no different than writing a shell script or makefile to >> coordinate all the unixy tools. If the nature of this encapsulation >> and scripting is a button in a gui, that's only natural for a >> gui-centric tool, just like a shell script is natural for a >> command-line tool. >> > > That forces everything to be GUI-centric, which makes all of those things for which a GUI is not natural harder. That was precisely the trouble I had with Viewlogic and the trouble I’m having with Vivado. > >> If we look at the extreme of simplicity - that adding features is >> never good - we wouldn't have emacs or vi, we'd only have cat (or >> maybe toggle switches, if you didn't like manually moving wires >> around). We wouldn't have email clients, we'd only have telnet (I >> hope you memorized the SMTP protocol). > > The user should have the choice. There is a place for Apple-style totalitarian integration. I’m typing this at Mail on a Mac. But at least the way I use mail the inflexibility is acceptable. For EDA, it’s not. > >> The tools that make up the >> gEDA suite are, in essence, no more than text editors with lots of >> features added - there's nothing you can do in gEDA that you can't do >> with a good text editor and a lot of thinking, but using gEDA makes it >> easier. >> > > But much of it is graphical, and a GUI is the right tool for graphics. That doesn’t make it the right tool for the whole job, though. > > John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. > http://www.noqsi.com/ > jpd AT noqsi DOT com > > > -- Home http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/ Work http://forge.abcd.harvard.edu/gf/project/epl_engineering/wiki/
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