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Date:	Tue, 28 Jul 2015 16:27:38 +0930
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Subject:	Re: [geda-user] Component Cut-outs in PCB
From:	"Erich Heinzle (a1039181 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
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Is there a standard set of shapes you use?
Can you describe the sort of cutouts you're routinely doing?
Can you attach any examples if they are hard to describe.

Cheers,

Erich.


On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 4:00 AM, Stephen Besch <sbesch AT buffalo DOT edu> wrote:

> Several years back there was a lot of discussion about the occasional need
> for odd shaped cut-outs. Even though several suggestions were made none
> worked - in some cases at all, or even when they did the results were
> marginal.  This is still a problem today. The only work around is to draw
> them directly on some unused layer - for example "Spare" works for me. This
> is however not a really good solution. Nevertheless it's better than
> drawing them on the outline layer. First off, every board shop that I deal
> with want cut-outs in a separate gerber file. If you use the outline layer
> then you can't have a separate board layout - unless of course you put the
> outline on some other unused layer.
>
> However, this solves only part of the problem. As long as the cutout is
> only straight lines it's simple. If you need arcs - or worse, full circles
> or linked arcs it gets really hard. This is largely due to problems with
> the ARC tool in PCB:  1) you can't control/change Radius; 2) you can't
> control degrees of arc, and 4) you can't control start angle. This is
> really weird because the arc[...] item in PCB allows control of all of
> these items.
>
> I have found only one way to get this to work. First select the target
> layer. Then let's say you have a cutout consisting of a closed loop that
> requires 6 linked arcs and 2 lines. Just draw them on the selected layer
> (Spare for example) more or less where you think that they will need to be.
> The arcs will have to be in more or less random locations owing to the
> severe limitations of the Arc tool.
>
> With this as a starting point, save the PCB file (but leave PCB open) then
> open the pcb file with your favorite text editor (AND KEEP A BACKUP). Just
> make sure that whatever you use does not add junk characters or muck around
> with end of line characters - Gedit is a good choice.
>
> Once the file is open, search for the name of the layer you are using.
> Once found, you will see a parenthetically bounded list of the line and arc
> definitions for the stuff you put on the layer. Here's an example of each:
>
> Line[1525.00mil 1565.00mil 1525.00mil 1450.00mil 1.00mil 1.00mil
> "clearline"]
>  Arc[1425.00mil 2005.00mil 450.00mil 450.00mil 1.00mil 1.00mil 305 290
> "clearline"]
> Line arguments are: Xstart Ystart Xend Yend Width Clearance Flags
> Arc arguments are: Xcenter Ycenter Radius1 Radius2 Width Clearance
> StartAngle AngleofArc Flags
>
> The 2 radii are supposed to let you draw ovals, though I haven't tried it.
> Also, for cutouts the clearline flag makes no sense and can be omitted
> (just have to leave the "". Clearance makes no sense either but it has to
> be there anyway or PCB will throw an error. In fact you must be extremely
> careful when editing these parameters since PCB is very intolerant of
> formatting errors.
>
> The rest of the process amounts to entering your own values for the
> various parameters until you get the shape you need. The coordinate
> crosshair is very useful here. I stongly suggest saving the file after
> every few changes (maybe even after every change) and reloading. PCB will
> detect the change and prompt you to reload. Do this every time to verify
> that your changes actually show up and incidentally did not corrupt the
> entire file (the message log window helps a lot here). During this editing
> process you may be able to do some of the positioning by dragging stuff
> around directly in PCB. Just be forewarned that you will need to save using
> PCB and reload the text editor after every such change made in PCB. In
> other words: Never edit in one tool anything that has not been saved in the
> other.
>
> This is extremely tedious and annoying but when you are desperate for a
> cutout I'm afraid that it's the only way.
>
> Stephen R. Besch
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Is there a standard set of shapes you use?<=
br></div>Can you describe the sort of cutouts you&#39;re routinely doing?<b=
r></div><div>Can you attach any examples if they are hard to describe.<br><=
/div><div><br></div>Cheers,<br><br></div>Erich.<br><div><div><div><br></div=
></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
">On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 4:00 AM, Stephen Besch <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:sbesch AT buffalo DOT edu" target=3D"_blank">sbesch AT buffalo DOT edu</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Several years back ther=
e was a lot of discussion about the occasional need for odd shaped cut-outs=
. Even though several suggestions were made none worked - in some cases at =
all, or even when they did the results were marginal.=C2=A0 This is still a=
 problem today. The only work around is to draw them directly on some unuse=
d layer - for example &quot;Spare&quot; works for me. This is however not a=
 really good solution. Nevertheless it&#39;s better than drawing them on th=
e outline layer. First off, every board shop that I deal with want cut-outs=
 in a separate gerber file. If you use the outline layer then you can&#39;t=
 have a separate board layout - unless of course you put the outline on som=
e other unused layer.<br>
<br>
However, this solves only part of the problem. As long as the cutout is onl=
y straight lines it&#39;s simple. If you need arcs - or worse, full circles=
 or linked arcs it gets really hard. This is largely due to problems with t=
he ARC tool in PCB:=C2=A0 1) you can&#39;t control/change Radius; 2) you ca=
n&#39;t control degrees of arc, and 4) you can&#39;t control start angle. T=
his is really weird because the arc[...] item in PCB allows control of all =
of these items.<br>
<br>
I have found only one way to get this to work. First select the target laye=
r. Then let&#39;s say you have a cutout consisting of a closed loop that re=
quires 6 linked arcs and 2 lines. Just draw them on the selected layer (Spa=
re for example) more or less where you think that they will need to be. The=
 arcs will have to be in more or less random locations owing to the severe =
limitations of the Arc tool.<br>
<br>
With this as a starting point, save the PCB file (but leave PCB open) then =
open the pcb file with your favorite text editor (AND KEEP A BACKUP). Just =
make sure that whatever you use does not add junk characters or muck around=
 with end of line characters - Gedit is a good choice.<br>
<br>
Once the file is open, search for the name of the layer you are using. Once=
 found, you will see a parenthetically bounded list of the line and arc def=
initions for the stuff you put on the layer. Here&#39;s an example of each:=
<br>
<br>
Line[1525.00mil 1565.00mil 1525.00mil 1450.00mil 1.00mil 1.00mil &quot;clea=
rline&quot;]<br>
=C2=A0Arc[1425.00mil 2005.00mil 450.00mil 450.00mil 1.00mil 1.00mil 305 290=
 &quot;clearline&quot;]<br>
Line arguments are: Xstart Ystart Xend Yend Width Clearance Flags<br>
Arc arguments are: Xcenter Ycenter Radius1 Radius2 Width Clearance StartAng=
le AngleofArc Flags<br>
<br>
The 2 radii are supposed to let you draw ovals, though I haven&#39;t tried =
it. Also, for cutouts the clearline flag makes no sense and can be omitted =
(just have to leave the &quot;&quot;. Clearance makes no sense either but i=
t has to be there anyway or PCB will throw an error. In fact you must be ex=
tremely careful when editing these parameters since PCB is very intolerant =
of formatting errors.<br>
<br>
The rest of the process amounts to entering your own values for the various=
 parameters until you get the shape you need. The coordinate crosshair is v=
ery useful here. I stongly suggest saving the file after every few changes =
(maybe even after every change) and reloading. PCB will detect the change a=
nd prompt you to reload. Do this every time to verify that your changes act=
ually show up and incidentally did not corrupt the entire file (the message=
 log window helps a lot here). During this editing process you may be able =
to do some of the positioning by dragging stuff around directly in PCB. Jus=
t be forewarned that you will need to save using PCB and reload the text ed=
itor after every such change made in PCB. In other words: Never edit in one=
 tool anything that has not been saved in the other.<br>
<br>
This is extremely tedious and annoying but when you are desperate for a cut=
out I&#39;m afraid that it&#39;s the only way.<br>
<br>
Stephen R. Besch<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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