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Mail Archives: geda-user/2014/07/23/17:50:38

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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:50:14 -0700
From: Dave Curtis <davecurtis AT sonic DOT net>
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To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Subject: Re: [geda-user] Re: Layers and footprints
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On 07/23/2014 01:35 PM, John Griessen wrote:
> On 07/23/2014 01:46 PM, Evan Foss wrote:
>> I should think the subcircuit really just
>> needs some special tag on it's page that will indicate the Rx, Cx and
>> other reference designators will be altered after netlisting &
>> tessellation on the layout.
>
>
> In chips or big circuits with repeated elements the burden would be huge.
> Flat netlisting would grind to a halt for circuits with 40 elements
> repeated 64 times
> in one area, and 50 other cases of the same in the whole circuit.  That
> example
> is 128K circuit elements used to make shift registers, and not even
> estimating RAM
> and ROM to use.
> But printed electronics that goes on the door of a washing machine could
> get that way easily.
> There would be plenty of ROM to encode your programs, and some RAM to
> run out of,
> all made in a slow large CMOS type of organic or nano inorganic
> semiconductor set of materials
> printed on the surface of the door panel so it can dissipate heat and
> have low low leakage
> and low low power consumption, and slow boring performance to go with
> that.  But fine for
> motor control and a UI, and there would be a few chips added to
> transition to the faster networking
> circuit world around that slow washing machine bot.  The circuit area
> would look like
> all wires and flat patches of capacitance and transistors with no 3D
> components anywhere except a few
> at the edge with an ethernet cable or wireless going out, or at the edge
> with the motor control
> where there are a few special power transistors attached..
>
>
> Think about making a 64 bit ALU...it would get super tedious to have
> unique ref des's for
> all those transistors.  You really just need to know they come from
> "such and such"
> module that has been simulated plenty and can be used with up to so much
> length of wires away.
> Each placement of a module does not need its own unique identifier for
> module's R1, R2, C1.
> They can all be called  R1, R2, C1, and exist in different instances of
> the identical
> module, where the instances are kept track of in the netlist and by gschem.
>
>
> There would be no components needing a ref des anyway in an array
> repetitive circuit case, since
> the circuit elements would be completed from primitives like in chip
> mask making, not by an assembly step needing a ref des.
>

The last time I did any gate-array design, we were still building 
mainframe CPU's with ECL.  But... back then Amdahl had one of the most 
high-productivity schematic editors I have ever used.  And it ran on a 
52-line by 80 column text terminal.   It was productive for two reason:

1) Component stacking with powerful bus rippers.  I could specify a 
32-bit latch with 4 parity bits (36 bits all together) by instantiating 
a single symbol, and putting in a stack-count of 36.  It appeared on 
plotted (micro-fische vector art) schematic prints as a single block, 
with a "36" displayed by breaking the bottom line of the ANSI-compliant 
schematic symbol and placing the text there.  I'll try some ascii-art:

+----+
|    |
|    +--OUT[0-31;P0-P3]
|    |
+-36-+

sorta like that, only prettier.  Then, the signal name could be: 
OUT[0-31;P0-p3] which would rip latch zero to bit 0, latch 1 to bit 1, 
etc.  You could specify swizzles: [0-30:2,1-31:2] meant count by two's:
[0,2,4,6...1,3,5...]

The refdes for a component stack was something like U31.7, the stack 
item number being after the dot.

And your point about refdes on individual transistors is well-taken. 
The Amdahl had hierarchical refdes's U3/U7.3/U4.4 (except they were 
meaningful names, not "U", because we'd have gone loony tracking a CPU 
full of stuff otherwise).  And at any level, the system could generate 
instance names like I$007 for instance names that you didn't care about; 
but of course the rest of the CAD system wanted a unique instance name 
on every little thing.

2) The second reason for productivity is that the attributes were a 
completely separate database, and was under independent revision 
control.  Attributes were joined (very much a database join) to 
instances by refdes.  So you could have one schematic, and experiment 
with different versions of the attached attributes very easily (which 
was important for trying various place/route strategies in that day and 
age.)

-dave



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