Message-Id:	<3.0.1.16.19990125084315.1c1fc2a8@shadow.net>
X-Sender:	ralphgpr AT shadow DOT net
X-Mailer:	Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16)
Date:	Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:43:15
To:	Eli Zaretskii <eliz AT is DOT elta DOT co DOT il>
From:	Ralph Proctor <ralphgpr AT shadow DOT net>
Subject:	Re: DOS Box clear-up
Cc:	djgpp AT delorie DOT com
In-Reply-To:	<Pine.SUN.3.91.990125091255.6041A-100000@is>
References:	<3 DOT 0 DOT 1 DOT 16 DOT 19990124133814 DOT 1d7f6a6e AT shadow DOT net>
Mime-Version:	1.0
Reply-To:	djgpp AT delorie DOT com

At 09:13 AM 1/25/99 +0200, you wrote:
>
>On Sun, 24 Jan 1999, Ralph Proctor wrote:
>
>> 1. boot up
>> 2. bring up windows (and do whatever)
>> 3. get out of windows by alt-F4 or the file menu. Window is now OFF!!
>> 4. you are now back in DOS.
>
>With Windows 9X, this is impossible to do.  (Well, actually, it's
>possible, if you try hard enough, but IMHO it isn't worth it.)

Then my friend here in Miami (who is much less experienced with programming
and DOS
than I am, but does know how to work with Windows 95) is correct--You DO
NOT expect
to use a Windows 95 machine in any DOS only (even temporarily) mode. What
you are
really in is a Windows 95-controlled DOS virtual situation.

Not for an instant do I disagree with you that you are doing exellent work
with your method,
and, of course, until I can get a DOS/Linux machine (WITH NO MICROSOFT) I
will have
to emulate your method. I thank you, Eli, but I do feel a little faint. I
am having trouble
breathing. (figuratively speaking :)

I no longer am interested in flight simulators. I gave that example as
probably the
best test for true DOS compatibility.

>Personally, I suggest to run all DOS programs inside Windows.  Windows
>is quite good at running multiple DOS programs (much more stable than
>at running Windows programs, actually), so as long as the program will
>run under Windows, either in a windowed session or in a full-screen
>session, I suggest to stick to that.

So THIS is where we are. Okay.

>Once again, if you run most of your DOS programs, including DJGPP
>development tools, under Windows, you don't need to care too much
>about this.  After all, Windows was born as a protected-mode DOS
>multitasker, all the GUI mess was added much later.  So the part that
>multitasks DOS applications is one of the most proven and stable parts
>of Windows.  In fact, I'm running several large DJGPP applications
>(Emacs and Info, among others) for days on end without shutting down
>the machine, and Windows has never crashed on me.

Yes, I find that EMACS does run well under windows, and it's easy to use it
or any DOS editor such as Boxer running under windows. I even get faster
hard drive response because then I have 32-bit (with a 4MB cache)
operation. But I never attempt to compile or debug this way.

Thank you very much, Eli. I hope you don't mind my saying that now
my imaginary ideal machine would be with DOS and Linux installed either
with a partitioned drive or two drives. Maybe some day (sigh).

Ralph

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