X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=2A3PRdIgLKXhb+HIWsbjvuoGMOTybUM+h3xqslW0nmw=; b=T9RpAirCiFP07g0yWZDvk9h0rdgYGgNeYzlRB4Vtnw9SRuedx25n73oytDR37oDUkj A/OXI6ec7Pd+FNMcrmj7BfBfa6GklHvTN1KWAHmGLi9eQK3FY/Y4FYuO+neaYGGPWrg1 ZLiio/ztxySHLXDCzbeqOkYv1WJAcOW8qaEvw2M5rN6d5EHXb9xblNOaUMqj1e2dBvVo OsgTwnWTm5hcKZpoPs8vuB3bCDlTAwPs5Dq0YIkvBKDqt5dGJarw+6pUjCeE8zLUQp0W SLfzA5jFiXQZhjqi5hEbqrIJneZ5fObgh+SPxNeEYXSQAlMW9U9IPcKTq0ZN1+OraZVx 1geg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=2A3PRdIgLKXhb+HIWsbjvuoGMOTybUM+h3xqslW0nmw=; b=NT3QWC28grtaGg8qv6hF+UB9fUtFJUiDwD8bjFr6Ukdc6T4lTIj5dQ2f453etMG7Tz Tl2cJRX6hKG1M5DpPwqjp3SjKg+1u33+pVSxMoKkPPZUnLHzu0EXyUwEokJ31JMkKS1g Wgn/fMHROo1mDB4t7BGBWVRg6w7rFKxMg8qC02X//4sr9Zmr0wYBFCq9fV+M8hPeudQj NRKXeNdZvaZn++ug7fcjtLJt/yxQ69XqaSXYsqcH1F7GuNy+MKcCCbAepzDesCDCsCfk S8VPhPFm8xrNoVWAlGHhiyhhFanEjh3YdV4PU0AU7r/m+EO14QvOLSukzTNHih8uPQTg A5Cg== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwN7jvWHVZTuGdAESuUXqb3KqV0jIDBUqfh4E3CgydvpGrNjaeV2e/n4oTVSi9EKrQYzOr+VpAs0eflMzw== X-Received: by 10.25.211.15 with SMTP id k15mr2195470lfg.178.1472264441539; Fri, 26 Aug 2016 19:20:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <57C09C3C DOT 7020708 AT xs4all DOT nl> <20160826171545 DOT 2bc54995 AT floyd DOT freeelectron DOT net> From: "Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 02:20:40 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [geda-user] Microwave PCB layout simulation or How to eat all your processing power in 3 easy steps To: gEDA users mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 10:48 PM, Chad Parker (parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: > FWIW, this is something I've thought a lot about also. It would be very > cool, but as with all simulation, to do it and get an answer out that > actually resembles the real world is really hard. There are a lot of details > that have to be taken into account, and then you have to make sure that your > fab gets them all right too when you build the board. You can get maybe 10% > variation in the dielectric constant of FR4, for example. PCB is not > currently aware of many of those details, like board material, layer > thickness, the amount of prepreg between the layers, etc. so you'd still > have to add all that information in somewhere. > > I have a situation right now where I'm putting a couple of vias in close > proximity to each other and counting on the parasitic capacitance to couple > in a test signal. I'd love to be able to simulate and get an idea of what > the capacitance actually is. I'll have to build and test it to really figure > it out. > > BTW, you need more than just Hyperlynx to do this. You need the specific > Hyperlynx 3D field solver module. My employer has licenses for MG, including > Hyperlynx, but that module is licensed separately (I was just looking into > this last week). > > I don't know much about gnucap, but it seems like in order to use it to > simulate a PCB like this, you still need to be able to abstract a circuit > model from the layout, and that's what the fancy, expensive programs do. https://web.archive.org/web/20130830223605/http://lc.cray.com/ > --Chad > > On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 5:15 PM, al davis wrote: >> >> On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 21:45:00 +0200 >> "Bert Timmerman (bert DOT timmerman AT xs4all DOT nl) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" >> wrote: >> > So basically you wish for a Hyperlynx exporter for pcb ;-) >> >> Good luck getting Mentor (owner of Hyperlynx) to do that. >> >> What you really need is an exporter to gnucap-Verilog, or a plugin for >> gnucap to read (and write) the pcb format. >> >> If somebody wants to write that gnucap plugin, I will help you do it. >> > -- Home http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/ Work http://forge.abcd.harvard.edu/gf/project/epl_engineering/wiki/ -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v2 mQENBFYy4RYBCAC183JomLtbdAlcKiaPDoVHq52LDmVmH75aiEc69m7YxDt54/ai VtYCAobbGVIyn3Hlz3uhF6LnPl/6Lm1VdnCfpwu3KQhCO6ds10ow2C30X4ohCqOd hCVg5C+ILmQkEffFrFODy3ji+PYTF4pADvHCWsTMv0hf0llwFOJsBCK6cl02IffE JPqy4PjM1nZ9HpzT84JBaG/4OGvTZ8SQ2yFUl265jagvygPTf88H1xpZHH1r8dB1 stjUHLmPH8AOyDgKxFchgGeDc3p/vJtgDDIXAFfDXG0NSRovLmtaQdGxe47Zf/go bXiEM7YL2WqQe5zfEA919JxkEwlDKYniOSVzABEBAAG0N0V2YW4gRm9zcyAoVGhp cyBpcyBteSBwdWJsaWMga2V5LikgPGV2YW5mb3NzQGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JATkEEwEC ACMFAlYy4RYCGwMHCwkIBwMCAQYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRCIpQTcE8nN bbBaCACAm8pU5lG1ev2Fsw68Axtcl57SJrYieqX96c3YuYH9JpqMqJRnd9nDKw9X tQuvuH7tUk0VbOaDqReOYJVI/4c5wb9AaOFp6K2DUcupq6XhgXpvz3HzoPwjAdIj XuQzdRUx5+innTJrSkGuBYW/CZ2zqEx4xfLlq4rO0hoTUMR8QVp2cCrkw6BT0m86 APIw/ZnjoxM8IEzr7MxfRIg3qpzrZk28rmhx+k78Jyk61UhwcCPGIm/pjUopTwYJ 3YBdRB2cYD2aN7A1JVf5cRmSQYooHBGpH0kYvomGk97PKqypVuJ7OpG9xM58wUcC qUVt9hKlePLzP8csYjt8onqI7qIIuQENBFYy4RYBCADlH8spG3WkCx62vB5mr5Z0 SCDd/RcyA4A5y5EOj5KurQkrSWpgi9Ho1yKruMJ6blQR2qkc66KqH9pnXDm/ZI1M K/wdW3ngETxBmXoozzFMT89aEWIVR5/PFodWK1elekE9iJxACuR98Zg2QttTD3x8 A9w8VEyMLOXcDTrPFpHegMKswFBg5iuMulAdXAoGejWTI3n+qKFpabHm2Lfs6wjk 5rjucpTdeFK6UeWF1xAvNxXibuu5BlGwv53930qIXRwO/Gn2Rh5DXWxKU2fEIme/ xgQQmIsDeUoWbfybdjw/x7Q0LW4mINiLDQcGHHRQKFIxbAJCT3USPLGh5xwE9/Er ABEBAAGJAR8EGAECAAkFAlYy4RYCGwwACgkQiKUE3BPJzW0uYAf9Hf30n8tM3mR2 Zo6ESE0ivgdgjaJtAWrBUx7JzAzPjBnBOlNnu5Y9lVEqetvUPH6e3PvaHYUuaUU8 0HwxuKBW9nUprgV6uIu1DZmlcp+SxpbuCy7RDpNocRLNWWFMaYYzznmTgfnTgD4D gCq8Mf1mcfrluTkOAo+QNqbMfl1GISClopRqxVuAo59ewgMnFujwgd8w12BwWl24 CzqOs5HqcUslePj+LzcjSNgVCklYwKl+0dsb/fctMOCtHodwqm2CBJ+zydvNmYkD fxda/J91Z1xrah5ec++FL0L4vs+jCiIWJeupJFKlr1hCMZiiGH7W554loK5l4jv3 EY347EidAw== =Ta4p -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----