X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Message-ID: <51537169.9070702@estechnical.co.uk> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 22:23:37 +0000 From: Ed Simmons User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com CC: Rob Butts Subject: Re: [geda-user] Magnetic Exercise Bike design with a stator and rotor References: <51505B7A DOT 8060202 AT ecosensory DOT com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070108090400040303060902" X-Authenticated-As: ed AT estechnical DOT co DOT uk Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070108090400040303060902 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You'd dissipate huge power in the coils trying to do it this way, I suspect. Think of it more as an AC generator, you could use a full bridge rectifier for three phase and a simple (albeit hefty) constant current load, with a set point for the loading. Or if the analog CC load puts you off, a big MOSFET to short the rectified output to provide load, PWM drive this to vary the apparent load. Either way, you have to get a good ratio to drive this, a few hundred rpm will be a minimum. Hope that helps, Ed On 27/03/2013 21:15, Rob Butts wrote: > > I got a stator and flywheel and my problem is that the stator has a 4 > wires coming from the stator and I don't have a schematic. There is a > green wire which is screwed to ground. The rest, a yellow, a white and > a red with blue stripped that all appear to go to different coils. > > I'm thinking these are three phases of an ac stator? My thought is to > have the pedals spinning a shaft that the flywheel is tied to. Then > I'd vary the votage going to each phase (dc voltage) which would > produce a magnetic field and resistance to the pedaling. > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > > Rob > > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:44 PM, Rob Butts > wrote: > > I do understand how the magnetic field varies in the road bike > trainer and kind of understand the eddy current braking theory. I > did get an eight coil stator and flywheel that I thought I'd > experiment with. In the see also section of the eddy current > brake wiki page there is a link for Telma retarders and towards > the bottom of that page a section describing an electric retarder > which sounds exactly what I need and what I can use this $14 > stator and flywheel for. I think I just have to gear the speed of > the flywheel as high as I can which at this point is 5 to 1. > > > On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:13 AM, John Griessen > > wrote: > > On 03/24/2013 03:58 PM, Rob Butts wrote: > > One plastic disc is fixed and the opposing plastic disk is > allowed to rotate 30 degrees providing the variable > magnetic field and > variable resistance. I have not been able to simulate the > resistance I believe because I'm not providing the same > rotational > velocity of the aluminum disc. > > > Sounds like the out of alignment of the discs makes the field > vary from weak to strong. > To have strong fields, each magnet needs to be straight > across, (through the aluminum disc), > from another with same polarity direction. Then induced > currents flowing in circles around the strong field area > counter subsequent motion by a force of their own. I've never > quite grasped how that force stays local > to any place in the aluminum plate though...perhaps inertia of > electrons? Else moving the path of the high > eddying current is more resistive than the eddy path? It's > all so circular! I feel like researching > and reading about it instead of doing my taxes... > > What do you mean by simulate? What velocity can you get? > > Some decent velocity is needed for small inexpensive magnets. > I've seen a demo > of eddy current braking done with a pendulum hung plate, then > a slotted plate > for comparison, where the opposing magnets were very massive > and with iron looping > around to make a complete magnetic circle path with two short > gaps, ( where the aluminum > plate moved). It would slow the pendulum in one stroke by > 4/5ths. It must have weighed > 80 lbs. > > An alternator will need velocity also. Bicycle gearing can > get you velocity. > > > -- Ed Simmons ed AT estechnical DOT co DOT uk www.estechnical.co.uk --------------070108090400040303060902 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
You'd dissipate huge power in the coils trying to do it this way, I suspect.

Think of it more as an AC generator, you could use a full bridge rectifier for three phase and a simple (albeit hefty) constant current load, with a set point for the loading. Or if the analog CC load puts you off, a big MOSFET to short the rectified output to provide load, PWM drive this to vary the apparent load.

Either way, you have to get a good ratio to drive this, a few hundred rpm will be a minimum.

Hope that helps,

Ed

On 27/03/2013 21:15, Rob Butts wrote:

I got a stator and flywheel and my problem is that the stator has a 4 wires coming from the stator and I don't have a schematic. There is a green wire which is screwed to ground. The rest, a yellow, a white and a red with blue stripped that all appear to go to different coils.

I'm thinking these are three phases of an ac stator? My thought is to have the pedals spinning a shaft that the flywheel is tied to. Then I'd vary the votage going to each phase (dc voltage) which would produce a magnetic field and resistance to the pedaling.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Rob



On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 3:44 PM, Rob Butts <r DOT butts2 AT gmail DOT com> wrote:
I do understand how the magnetic field varies in the road bike trainer and kind of understand the eddy current braking theory.  I did get an eight coil stator and flywheel that I thought I'd experiment with.  In the see also section of the eddy current brake wiki page there is a link for Telma retarders and towards the bottom of that page a section describing an electric retarder which sounds exactly what I need and what I can use this $14 stator and flywheel for.  I think I just have to gear the speed of the flywheel as high as I can which at this point is 5 to 1.


On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:13 AM, John Griessen <john AT ecosensory DOT com> wrote:
On 03/24/2013 03:58 PM, Rob Butts wrote:
One plastic disc is fixed and the opposing plastic disk is allowed to rotate 30 degrees providing the variable magnetic field and
variable resistance.  I have not been able to simulate the resistance I believe because I'm not providing the same rotational
velocity of the aluminum disc.

Sounds like the out of alignment of the discs makes the field vary from weak to strong.
To have strong fields, each magnet needs to be straight across, (through the aluminum disc),
from another with same polarity direction.  Then induced currents flowing in circles around the strong field area
counter subsequent motion by a force of their own.  I've never quite grasped how that force stays local
to any place in the aluminum plate though...perhaps inertia of electrons?  Else moving the path of the high
eddying current is more resistive than the eddy path?  It's all so circular!  I feel like researching
and reading about it instead of doing my taxes...

What do you mean by simulate?  What velocity can you get?

Some decent velocity is needed for small inexpensive magnets.  I've seen a demo
of eddy current braking done with a pendulum hung plate, then a slotted plate
for comparison, where the opposing magnets were very massive and with iron looping
around to make a complete magnetic circle path with two short gaps, ( where the aluminum
plate moved).  It would slow the pendulum in one stroke by 4/5ths.  It must have weighed
80 lbs.

An alternator will need velocity also.  Bicycle gearing can get you velocity.




-- 
Ed Simmons
ed AT estechnical DOT co DOT uk
www.estechnical.co.uk
--------------070108090400040303060902--