X-Recipient: archive-cygwin AT delorie DOT com X-SWARE-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: sourceware.org Message-ID: <4AB19D09.1010006@cwilson.fastmail.fm> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 22:20:57 -0400 From: Charles Wilson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.8.1.23) Gecko/20090812 Thunderbird/2.0.0.23 Mnenhy/0.7.6.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Subject: Re: tcl/tk/expect/dejagnu/gdb/insight [Was: Re: [PATCH] Define _TIMEVAL_DEFINED consistently whenever defining timeval.] References: <4AADAF9C DOT 2000601 AT gmail DOT com> <4AAECE49 DOT 9040603 AT cwilson DOT fastmail DOT fm> <4AB16167 DOT 6070301 AT users DOT sourceforge DOT net> <4AB17DDF DOT 3090904 AT gmail DOT com> In-Reply-To: <4AB17DDF.3090904@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090802030101090603070002" Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help AT cygwin DOT com; run by ezmlm List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: cygwin-owner AT cygwin DOT com Mail-Followup-To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Delivered-To: mailing list cygwin AT cygwin DOT com --------------090802030101090603070002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Korn wrote: > Yaakov (Cygwin/X) wrote: > >>> which, honestly, isn't very much. I'd be concerned about all those >>> tcl-db${old_version} packages -- but it looks like there are no >>> in-distro users of them. That leaves gdb, ruby, python, git, and parrot >>> -- all of which have active maintainers. Plus suite3270 and brltty, >>> which I'm not sure about. >> I see no plausible way to transition other than a simultaneous release >> of all these packages. Weeeeelllll, we did adopt the WJM policy for the cygwin-1.7/gcc4/dw2 DLL transition: http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2009-04/msg00034.html >> #3) if some app does break, it's up to that app's maintainer to rebuild >> as needed, NOT the DLL maintainer to ensure backwards compatibility, >> even though per #1 he has re-used the existing DLL number. >> #4) BUT no need to coordinate all of these rebuilds -- if any are >> required -- on some sort of official flag day. Not exactly what that particular get-out-of-jail-free card was meant for, but... > Could we conceivably do coexistence by bringing in the new properly > cygwinized versions at version 8.5 and keep the current 8.4 DLLs and > /usr/share files around for backward compat? I tested that already. It seems to work okay with gitk and python (idle). Dunno about ruby -- ruby apparently dynamically loads extension libraries, because neither the DLL nor the EXEs are linked directly to, e.g. the iconv dll or the tcl/tk dlls. However, its configure script has "--with-tcl" and "--with-tk" options, but no "--with-itcl" or "--with-itk" so I suspect we're "safe" there, as well. I believe that expect is tk-agnostic, and so would be unaffected by the switchover -- except as much as any client might notice if its underlying interpreter jump a minor version number. However, even though the *files* do not appear to conflict, somehow *old* tcl finds the *new* itcl -- which causes *current* insight to complain. Now, as far as I know, *only* gdb uses itcl/itk/iwidgets. All of the other dependent tools use directly tcl and tk, nothing more. Hence, your proposal would probably work for everything *but* insight. For insight there are three choices, as I see it: 1) abandon insight completely (cgf's preferred solution?) 2) /opt/insight/ with its own local version of insight.exe + tcl + tk + itcl + itk + iwidgets. So, we'd keep the (modified) tcltk runtime-only package, and you'd have up to three different copies of the tcl and tk DLLs: two 8.4 versions -- one in /usr and another in /opt/insight, and one 8.5 version in /usr. 3) Rebuild insight to use the new X versions of tk/itk/etc. In this case we'd also keep the (modified) tcltk runtime-only package, for backwards compatibility for those clients -- other than insight -- for which this solution works. I've made a build of insight according to #2. It needs the patch which started this whole thread: http://cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-patches/2009-q3/msg00075.html as well as the attached patch (which is very hackish) against 20090916 insight cvs. To recreate, do this: $ cvs -z3 -d :pserver:anoncvs AT sourceware DOT org:/cvs/src co \ -D 2009-09-16 insight $ cd src $ $ cd .. $ mkdir _build $ cd _build $ If we go that route, the buildscript can be easily imported to mknetrel format. The advantage of this approach is it can be done before any thing else, and deployed in advance of any destabilizing changes, and it should just work. (Famous Last Words) As I mentioned in a different message, #3 also involves some excessive hackery. -- Chuck --------------090802030101090603070002 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="insight-native-patch-and-buildscript.tar.bz2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="insight-native-patch-and-buildscript.tar.bz2" QlpoOTFBWSZTWdE/m/IAFGB/hfg0AgB9///////f5f//3/4AAQAAgAhgD789 uVudRUaPYy2BvYD3rAAeiiQAAAAAASADFJo1NJmCnpMKbJGxpT2lNtU0aeo2 o9Q09QA9I0aANBg1NNI1T9D1JNP1MU0ZNAAAGhoA0AAAAAA0NSmkDTNCaZNA YmhoAGI9QA9CDRiBkAAk1KNTJFPeqn6RpM000ZJiM00aMmgjNE9TI00Bk00D JiHDQ0ZNGjRpoZGQwgDIAZBpoAAGQMgCRIIEaaCaYhoAgEaEmTyeTUwKM9JP TU9R5T009Jkn3H2fhwPwP9JJYDsBCMSggg7OmZ0h2dkdtJWltiaYDBA0QMWp 8ep5ARKREOZKSbFWQ4yhI1A1T8vxmcVppRxwMdjS0pfg02BQWPvpJN7Wz1gE DRW/WOPFJv5KP5tMqH+FLT23mFvAuILmjaPUQmEE5KRYrHnxKGMsZwKERPDb 1lgidbOG2UriqRnT8rUuZPQa5lii6KBVdIIxlKXyB6haYRZpEQohEspLkVJW RDv7/ZRQ02TX5HOc5FCXMQFzRMdf3NFeB7LGQHgGp4M+9iN9ghSIKRtV6hVC 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