Mail Archives: geda-user/2016/01/19/11:26:36
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Think you've hit the nail on the head really here Peter, and you have
better knowledge of the code than I ...
On 19/01/16 15:53, Peter Clifton (petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via
geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
>
> Really you need to have a reuse at the schematic level before you can
> expect any intelligent behaviour in the pcb tool.
>
> I've done multi channel designs with hierarchical schematics before...
> The rename just becomes X1/R1 -> X2/R1 etc...
>
> My rename plugin might still be floating about somewhere
> "sedrename"... Now we've got more plugins committed with the main
> repository, it might be fun to dig that one out and include it too...
> Was very handy when your transformation between channels can be
> expressed as a regex.
>
> The main downside with heirarchical refdes is the silkscreen and board
> fab house. They HATED IT. Couldn't cope with the long heirarchical
> refdes, didn't WANT to cope with the patch I applied to just put the
> last heirarchical part on the silk by each part, but then drew boxes
> manually with module designations.
>
> In the end, I used pcb's renumber feature to assign completely new
> refdes on the board, but instead of back annotating (impossible as we
> stand, with heirarchical schematics), I added a quick kludgy patch to
> read back in the rename file, so pcb could map between the gnetlist
> produced heirarchical netlist, and the flat refdes on the board.
>
> Made debugging extra fun, having to manually indirect from
> heirarchical schematic refdes to on board refdes, but at least it
> didn't upset the board assembly fab!
>
> I suppose I could also have post proceed out a flattened set of
> schematics with the renamed refdes if that became useful.
>
> Peter
>
> On 19 Jan 2016 14:51, "M. J. Everitt (m DOT j DOT everitt AT iee DOT org
> <mailto:m DOT j DOT everitt AT iee DOT org>) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com
> <mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com>]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com
> <mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com>> wrote:
>
>
> On 19/01/16 13:58, Nicklas Karlsson (nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com
> <mailto:nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com>) [via
> geda-user AT delorie DOT com <mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com>] wrote:
> >>> I tested and as far as I understand it works like this:
> >>> x is old refdes number
> >>> n increase with this value
> >>> Rx --> Rx+n
> >>>
> >>> I have subsheets and numbers look like this:
> >>> x is old refdes number
> >>> n increase with this value
> >>> want this S2/S1/Rx --> S2/S1+n/Rx
> >>> but get this S2/S1/Rx --> S2/S1+n/Rx
> >>> and the need is to change subsheet number and use this for
> another channel.
> >>>
> >>> For rename to work reasonable well there must be an integer
> difference between refdeses for different channels. Default for
> subsheet is Sn/Sn/Rx there where are two level of hierachy but it
> use quite a lot of space. To add an integer value to refdes use
> less space. I could add some kind of wild card so that both
> changing subsheet and adding an integer value to current subsheet
> works?
> >>>
> >>> I also add comment then this is used. Sometimes layout data
> need to be reused for several channels and in such case it is
> possible to simply select the layout, copy, rename refdeses and
> paste. Then doing a multi channel copy and paste really speed up
> design work.
> >>>
> >> For this purpose, if you have a schematic, I just use "Autonumber
> >> attributes" in gschem ...
> > Well gschem is not a problem. If you have done the layout of one
> channel for example a half bridge in a three phase circuit it is
> possiblo to copy and paste this layout including lines for copper
> traces but to get connections right refdeses must be changed.
> >
> > To copy layout for one a channel in pcb is really powerful yet
> simple to understand. Ideally somewhere in the future I think
> selector to select which subcircuit currently is worked on for
> this purpose would be an improvement but simple copy is
> essentially already there.
> >
> > Nicklas Karlsson
> I can see your dilemma. Perhaps the best way to handle this (as I've
> seen in other apps) is simply to add a '_copy' suffix to the
> refdes when
> you paste it, and then handle renaming from there. It's a difficult
> case, I can see what you'd like to do .. but in practise I think
> there's
> a lot of code required to figure out your netlisting mix/match .. the
> software has no way of knowing where your 'new' circuit has come from,
> or what you want to 'assign' it to in an existing
> netlist/schematic, so
> it would have to be a very simple rename rule.
>
> MJE
>
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Think you've hit the nail on the head really here Peter, and you
have better knowledge of the code than I ...<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19/01/16 15:53, Peter Clifton
(<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com">petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com</a>) [via <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJXU7q_AZ3Z9k3Cm1zKAoZHjPc4xETixTji5r2G2L_0AJqRACw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com"
type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Really you need to have a reuse at the schematic
level before you can expect any intelligent behaviour in the pcb
tool. </p>
<p dir="ltr">I've done multi channel designs with hierarchical
schematics before... The rename just becomes X1/R1 -> X2/R1
etc...</p>
<p dir="ltr">My rename plugin might still be floating about
somewhere "sedrename"... Now we've got more plugins committed
with the main repository, it might be fun to dig that one out
and include it too... Was very handy when your transformation
between channels can be expressed as a regex.</p>
<p dir="ltr">The main downside with heirarchical refdes is the
silkscreen and board fab house. They HATED IT. Couldn't cope
with the long heirarchical refdes, didn't WANT to cope with the
patch I applied to just put the last heirarchical part on the
silk by each part, but then drew boxes manually with module
designations.</p>
<p dir="ltr">In the end, I used pcb's renumber feature to assign
completely new refdes on the board, but instead of back
annotating (impossible as we stand, with heirarchical
schematics), I added a quick kludgy patch to read back in the
rename file, so pcb could map between the gnetlist produced
heirarchical netlist, and the flat refdes on the board.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Made debugging extra fun, having to manually indirect
from heirarchical schematic refdes to on board refdes, but at
least it didn't upset the board assembly fab!</p>
<p dir="ltr">I suppose I could also have post proceed out a
flattened set of schematics with the renamed refdes if that
became useful.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Peter</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 19 Jan 2016 14:51, "M. J. Everitt (<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:m DOT j DOT everitt AT iee DOT org">m DOT j DOT everitt AT iee DOT org</a>)
[via <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>]"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
On 19/01/16 13:58, Nicklas Karlsson (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com">nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com</a>)
[via<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>]
wrote:<br>
>>> I tested and as far as I understand it works like
this:<br>
>>> x is old refdes number<br>
>>> n increase with this value<br>
>>> Rx --> Rx+n<br>
>>><br>
>>> I have subsheets and numbers look like this:<br>
>>> x is old refdes number<br>
>>> n increase with this value<br>
>>> want this S2/S1/Rx --> S2/S1+n/Rx<br>
>>> but get this S2/S1/Rx --> S2/S1+n/Rx<br>
>>> and the need is to change subsheet number and use
this for another channel.<br>
>>><br>
>>> For rename to work reasonable well there must be
an integer difference between refdeses for different channels.
Default for subsheet is Sn/Sn/Rx there where are two level of
hierachy but it use quite a lot of space. To add an integer
value to refdes use less space. I could add some kind of wild
card so that both changing subsheet and adding an integer
value to current subsheet works?<br>
>>><br>
>>> I also add comment then this is used. Sometimes
layout data need to be reused for several channels and in such
case it is possible to simply select the layout, copy, rename
refdeses and paste. Then doing a multi channel copy and paste
really speed up design work.<br>
>>><br>
>> For this purpose, if you have a schematic, I just use
"Autonumber<br>
>> attributes" in gschem ...<br>
> Well gschem is not a problem. If you have done the layout
of one channel for example a half bridge in a three phase
circuit it is possiblo to copy and paste this layout including
lines for copper traces but to get connections right refdeses
must be changed.<br>
><br>
> To copy layout for one a channel in pcb is really
powerful yet simple to understand. Ideally somewhere in the
future I think selector to select which subcircuit currently
is worked on for this purpose would be an improvement but
simple copy is essentially already there.<br>
><br>
> Nicklas Karlsson<br>
I can see your dilemma. Perhaps the best way to handle this
(as I've<br>
seen in other apps) is simply to add a '_copy' suffix to the
refdes when<br>
you paste it, and then handle renaming from there. It's a
difficult<br>
case, I can see what you'd like to do .. but in practise I
think there's<br>
a lot of code required to figure out your netlisting mix/match
.. the<br>
software has no way of knowing where your 'new' circuit has
come from,<br>
or what you want to 'assign' it to in an existing
netlist/schematic, so<br>
it would have to be a very simple rename rule.<br>
<br>
MJE<br>
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