Mail Archives: geda-user/2016/01/04/17:28:08
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On Jan 4, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via =
geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 6:25 PM, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote:
>=20
> On Jan 3, 2016, at 7:11 PM, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) =
[via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>=20
>>=20
>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 7:38 AM, Nicklas Karlsson =
(nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] =
<geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>> > As I've mentioned previously I'm talking pcb, which is a more =
painful
>> > format to parse (such that so far as I'm aware the parser in pcb is =
the
>> > only one). Personally I find formats like this:
>> >
>> > device=3DRESISTOR
>> > T 44400 49300 5 10 1 1 90 0 1
>> >
>> > substantially less readable than ones with field names, but they =
are indeed
>> > easy to parse. The pcb format is quite a bit more elaborate and =
the
>> > savings from not rolling your own parser are more significant.
>>=20
>> Yes this is simple to parse, use little file space but do not have =
field name. To use little file space and be simple to parse is actually =
two good properties of a file format.
>>=20
>> Lack of field names may be worked around by having a list of field =
names in the beginning. If this list of field names is sorted according =
to how often they are used and each row only have to list used values it =
would probably be a file format with rather good properties.
>>=20
>> To enumerate the field names at the beginning of the file may also be =
a solution. Or maybe to use representation of data structures from a =
programming language.
>>=20
>> Although these are good measures, once you adopt them you may start =
asking yourself why you aren't just using a binary format. The argument =
for text is that you can glance at a chunk of it and easily tell what's =
going on.
>=20
> A stronger argument for text is that you can process it with =
text-oriented tools.
>=20
> But ultimately the reason for wanting to use those text-oriented tools =
is the same: you can see what you're working on with your own eyes. In =
every other respect binary is better.
Not true. The easiest tool for changing all of the rev=3D attributes in =
your schematics to match the git tag is a shell script using sed. Text =
formats keep trivial transformations like this easy. Binary formats get =
in the way. Binary formats make complicated transformations slightly =
easier, but I think its more important to break down the barriers that =
make simple stuff much harder than it needs to be.
John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
http://www.noqsi.com/
jpd AT noqsi DOT com
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><br><div><div>On Jan 4, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Britton =
Kerin (<a =
href=3D"mailto:britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com">britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com</a>) =
[via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] =
<<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>>=
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 6:25 PM, John Doty <span =
dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:jpd AT noqsi DOT com" =
target=3D"_blank">jpd AT noqsi DOT com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><br><div><span=
class=3D""><div>On Jan 3, 2016, at 7:11 PM, Britton Kerin (<a =
href=3D"mailto:britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com" =
target=3D"_blank">britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" =
target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] <<a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" =
target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>> =
wrote:</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at =
7:38 AM, Nicklas Karlsson (<a href=3D"mailto:nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com"=
target=3D"_blank">nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" =
target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a =
href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" =
target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>></span> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">> As I've mentioned =
previously I'm talking pcb, which is a more painful<br>
> format to parse (such that so far as I'm aware the parser in pcb is =
the<br>
> only one). Personally I find formats like this:<br>
<span>><br>
> device=3DRESISTOR<br>
> T 44400 49300 5 10 1 1 90 0 1<br>
><br>
</span><span>> substantially less readable than ones with field =
names, but they are indeed<br>
</span>> easy to parse. The pcb format is quite a bit more =
elaborate and the<br>
<span>> savings from not rolling your own parser are more =
significant.<br>
<br>
</span>Yes this is simple to parse, use little file space but do not =
have field name. To use little file space and be simple to parse is =
actually two good properties of a file format.<br>
<br>
Lack of field names may be worked around by having a list of field names =
in the beginning. If this list of field names is sorted according to how =
often they are used and each row only have to list used values it would =
probably be a file format with rather good properties.<br>
<br>
To enumerate the field names at the beginning of the file may also be a =
solution. Or maybe to use representation of data structures from a =
programming language.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Although these =
are good measures, once you adopt them you may start asking yourself why =
you aren't just using a binary format. The argument for text is =
that you can glance at a chunk of it and easily tell what's going =
on.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span>A stronger =
argument for text is that you can process it with text-oriented =
tools.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">But =
ultimately the reason for wanting to use those text-oriented tools is =
the same: you can see what you're working on with your own eyes. =
In every other respect binary is =
better. </div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Not =
true. The easiest tool for changing all of the rev=3D attributes in your =
schematics to match the git tag is a shell script using sed. Text =
formats keep trivial transformations like this easy. Binary formats get =
in the way. Binary formats make complicated transformations slightly =
easier, but I think its more important to break down the barriers that =
make simple stuff much harder than it needs to be.</div><br><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><p style=3D"margin: =
0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" =
style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">John Doty<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-tab"> <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span>Noqsi =
Aerospace, Ltd.</font></p><p style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px =
0.0px"><a href=3D"http://www.noqsi.com/">http://www.noqsi.com/</a></p><p =
style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica"><a =
href=3D"mailto:jpd AT noqsi DOT com">jpd AT noqsi DOT com</a></font></p><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></span>
</div>
<br></body></html>=
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