www.delorie.com/archives/browse.cgi   search  
Mail Archives: cygwin/2008/09/23/16:25:44

X-Recipient: archive-cygwin AT delorie DOT com
X-Spam-Check-By: sourceware.org
To: <cygwin AT cygwin DOT com>
References: <48D3B01F DOT 5080200 AT oracle DOT com> <9721D18815A74E3790E86A5BC19A461A AT collinsdirect DOT com> <48D74687 DOT 80002 AT oracle DOT com> <B932A0FA75EB4E3791300D2E33218FE8 AT collinsdirect DOT com> <48D83EF8 DOT 5040401 AT cwilson DOT fastmail DOT fm> <29E315C686404A6D8696F355E283DD56 AT collinsdirect DOT com> <20080923143543 DOT GA6284 AT ednor DOT casa DOT cgf DOT cx> <B01DE6C1051B4079A793977B52F1BE72 AT collinsdirect DOT com> <48D93FCA DOT 2080107 AT cygwin DOT com>
Subject: RE: [OT] polite response to a polite response - Larry...
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:24:10 -0400
Message-ID: <C66E8EE1FF2147AAA692A4434D6D7385@collinsdirect.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11
In-Reply-To: <48D93FCA.2080107@cygwin.com>
From: Barry Smith at SourceLink <barrysmith DOT sourcelink AT gmail DOT com>
X-IsSubscribed: yes
Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help AT cygwin DOT com; run by ezmlm
List-Id: <cygwin.cygwin.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:cygwin-unsubscribe-archive-cygwin=delorie DOT com AT cygwin DOT com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:cygwin-subscribe AT cygwin DOT com>
List-Archive: <http://sourceware.org/ml/cygwin/>
List-Post: <mailto:cygwin AT cygwin DOT com>
List-Help: <mailto:cygwin-help AT cygwin DOT com>, <http://sourceware.org/ml/#faqs>
Sender: cygwin-owner AT cygwin DOT com
Mail-Followup-To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Delivered-To: mailing list cygwin AT cygwin DOT com

Larry:

> but adding work-arounds to Cygwin for other people's bugs just makes
Cygwin fragile and bloated.
Agreed, and understood, from a programmer's point of view. 

> The first step in the process is very often to report the problem to the
provider of the software.

... and correctly diagnosing which software is responsible is often a
problem that exceeds most end users.

- As pointed out in the "CygX Run" thread, M$ is usually to blame.
- If the problem is RAM available to cygwin (no example to point to), that's
a user-configuration problem.
- In the case of the SFX zip file, my opinion is that the creator of the zip
should "really" learn to span.
  There is no reason to transmit/copy-move a compressed file of more than
20M when "spanning" is available...
  and DOSRAR will run effectively under cygwin (as I pointed out, copying it
to ~ or ~/bin, and 
  chmod 555 DOSRAR.EXE).

I'm so sorry that RAR won't "play nice" with cygwin, but it "plays nice"
with Windows, Linux, Unix, and 
other operating systems.  cygwin is a Windows tool, like dBase, Rbase, RAR
and so many others.  

Cygwin (as a Windows shell) should be able to spawn a Windows task to run
outside of the domain of cygwin, 
monitor the Windows task, allow the Windows task to run freely in Windows
according to Windows rules, and 
receive a reported status back (by default) to cygwin from Windows.  
After all, Bash can call/run/spawn csh and ksh and zsh scripts and receive a
status.  Cygwin is a Windows 
shell, so it should behave like a shell.

Just my two cents worth. :)

> For this issue, that would mean reporting it to MS...
Not to my way of thinking.  ZIP SFX is the root of the problem. Not Zip, Not
Windows, Zip SFX without
Spanning.  I would have to do some more research with the users before
deciding who the issue should 
be reported to.

Hypothetical case-in-point, if the SFX was created on a Mac, then there
would be no way that a MAC 
SFX would execute on a PC (but it should unzip).  While I understand how SFX
files are convenient, 
they immediately limit themselves by OS.

Again, I would suggest to the original poster (and I believe I did, in a
round-about way) that they 
request their sender to resend the file using spanning.  For the future, I
would suggest that the 
original poster implement a new policy that they will not accept a single
file greater than 20M, and 
that all filesets sent must contain at minimum an md5 file (to verify the
rec'v'd file's validity) 
and at most include an associated 10% PAR set, and that received files will
be merged together if 
the associated PAR files can verify/rebuild the large file.  Otherwise, the
whole transmitted set 
is to be considerred corrupt, just like they want to consider the SFX file
that they originally 
brought to the list's attention.  It will make file transfer more
secure/verifiable.  
   
Again, that's my two cent worth.

Peace,

Barry Smith
-----Original Message-----
From: cygwin-owner AT cygwin DOT com [mailto:cygwin-owner AT cygwin DOT com] On Behalf Of
Larry Hall (Cygwin)
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 3:13 PM
To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Subject: Re: [OT] polite response to a polite reponse...

On 09/23/2008, Barry Smith at SourceLink wrote:
> > ... but running a simple user program should not crash it.  That
> > > doesn't mean that there it is impossible for a simple user program 
> > > to crash it but if Windows crashes, it's a serious Windows bug not 
> > > a program bug.
> That is just a fancy way of passing the buck.
> A former president coined the phrase "The buck stops here."

There are certain extremes where this has to apply but adding work-arounds
to Cygwin for other people's bugs just makes Cygwin fragile and bloated.
In general the policy for Cygwin is to fix the problem at the source in any
case possible.  This holds true for any software whether it's free (as in
beer and/or speech) or not.  The first step in the process is very often to
report the problem to the provider of the software.  For this issue, that
would mean reporting it to MS, which the OP in the other thread said he
would do.  It wouldn't hurt to follow-up on that, if you're game.

-- 
Larry Hall                              http://www.rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.                      (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
216 Dalton Rd.                          (508) 893-9889 - FAX
Holliston, MA 01746

_____________________________________________________________________

A: Yes.
 > Q: Are you sure?
 >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
 >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?

--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/


--
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple
Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/

- Raw text -


  webmaster     delorie software   privacy  
  Copyright © 2019   by DJ Delorie     Updated Jul 2019