X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f
X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
        h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=xvrSxT6atD1BGyL6bDV9KC1cpPAI4G11o7/KVuf5Si8=;
        b=vZOwnU27KXO06bfwfc2pSnJKmF9VqBVboZXI9gAv9WY8mCEwECYF/WpP68OSmAtym0
         IHsPxrUijwl9GGBUgCgfTbFnEmszX4uaBWiPDhvHMI2E4AdSqB46vZwAycFOBdv7P4yy
         O7jVrJmjvXQ4PhqSdKv9wozJjF2xc8jwfFRdPzPdp46FPEAb9uRtsnIq5Xdb+TJ5vAWi
         1tcXImg3XqmBbbQ1v/3pSmmGpr/6oictrU+FCq2cJnwO4yX6i/0n9mQABiB3PEkUMIvJ
         O9ztQMvQABgG/S66RQgwWa/mXlB1OPhzob1z8IiCKo4yZibKM8HJpZyo9Gvd5vkNS6vf
         0ZKA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
        h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to
         :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=xvrSxT6atD1BGyL6bDV9KC1cpPAI4G11o7/KVuf5Si8=;
        b=ppUphp6MS+6IUrrVyhDhd85tvLme8KsLjsMln5l7FbPr9psDjs+RiPmx7X/IRXUDG4
         9VFxY1/LSsL8Nbzpm1DWAibpZuhPqlYbkwulVOQwijg3nB0vPH2dbTwUnICBsVpjlA/9
         JNO0vCV3PCZhUKlGC1uUs1bwxFuog8OHbK2xxDPgs+ilhaLBXrgZo438w1TEP5GhP5Z+
         B31tcctaFQgDzvKRUeGNGPDhvI256mdh44DIPwIonLvf6Dlnw7Bvi8RkgAjhlkF9rTw9
         ljEXaVOrrBe9WUzVktImtpsuFm3ruThyRUjLCcGkjLuMA3Lvkw2zRbn2NyLKwyXJCAXN
         DlYg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOydoaFxHBmATARAf1ahZb9zdKuIDuNrPpD1ZO3zAW9hlrZik4rr
	w1A0ng2UoUyOXTrW
X-Received: by 10.25.145.66 with SMTP id y2mr6967348lfj.44.1497815854217;
        Sun, 18 Jun 2017 12:57:34 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2017 21:57:32 +0200
From: "Nicklas Karlsson (nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Subject: Re: [geda-user] DIY PCBs --> UV laser printer
Message-Id: <20170618215732.f3a853cf1739597e177884df@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20170618153703.D607D801F77A@turkos.aspodata.se>
References: <20170617081144 DOT 16928 DOT qmail AT rahul DOT net>
	<efa75d25-7cfd-49a8-cec5-7522a80ee010 AT ecosensory DOT com>
	<20170618153703 DOT D607D801F77A AT turkos DOT aspodata DOT se>
X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.5.1 (GTK+ 2.24.31; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by delorie.com id v5IJvbU7011802
Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com
X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com
Precedence: bulk

Interesting.

I found basically etching become as good as the printing and ordinary laser printer is not good.

To print pattern with UV laser printer directly on PCB treated with photo resist will probably produce a very good result but I have not find printer for sale and guess they are very expensive. I think UV and DLP is the solution but are not sure.



On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 17:37:03 +0200 (CEST)
karl AT aspodata DOT se wrote:

> John Griessen:
> > On 06/17/2017 03:11 AM, John Conover wrote:
> ...
> > > http://www.johncon.com/john/PCB/
> ...
> > I also use air regeneration of the CuCl2, which might even reduce the amount of HCl needed,
> > but that's not a very big cost anyway.  It does skip the need for any H2O2 buying
> > except to get started quickly.   Air bubbling of copper wire under HCl will get you
> > a charged up  CuCl2 bath eventually.  DJ Delorie gets credit for the CuCl2 chemistry
> > efficiency details.
> 
> I usually use natriumperoxidisulfate for etching, would there be any
> advantage to use H2O2/HCl instead ?
> 
> ///
> 
> I found a comparision of etching baths re. danger in [1] which
> says that H2O2/HCl produces toxic gases.
> 
> [2] says that natriumperoxidisulfate can produce finer structures
> than Fe(III)Cl.
> 
> [3] proposes citric acid (sounds very slow).
> 
> [4], p. 7 indicates that Fe(III)Cl is 6 times faster than H202/HCl, and
> peroxidifulfate is inbetween (3600 / 2500 / 600 nm/min).
> 
> [5], uses Acetic Acid and Hydrogen Peroxide and is a little slower 
> (200nm/min).
> 
> [6] states that perdisulphate is cleaner and safer than Fe(III) and
> H202 variants.
> 
> Has anyone tried electrolysis as in [7], [8] ?
> 
> [9] uses CuCl which can be regenerated, but has more undercut according
> to [10].
> 
> Regards,
> /Karl Hammar
> 
> [1]  https://web.archive.org/web/20090907183632/http://www.tuf-ev.de/workshop/aetzen/EntsorgungAetzen.htm
> [2]  https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natriumpersulfat
> [3]  http://transene.com/wp-content/uploads/Copper-Etch-Article.pdf
> [4]  https://nanolab.berkeley.edu/labmanual/chap1/JMEMSEtchRates2(2003).pdf
> [5]  http://engineering.tufts.edu/microfab/documents/SOP_CopperEtch2.pdf
> [6]  http://sfprime.net/pcb-etching/
> [7]  http://nontoxicprint.com/electroetching.htm
> [8]  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis
> [9]  http://www.goldrecovery.us/goldrecovery/documents/CuCl.pdf
> [10] http/www.chemcut.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Chemcut_Bulletin_8_Cupri_Chloride_Proces_-Parameters.pdf
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Aspö Data
> Lilla Aspö 148
> S-742 94 Östhammar
> Sweden
> +46 173 140 57