X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=kFZ9X4n5+CSaTMclfVeR0oxMRkbvQZXvkTMG4RwAZ+o=; b=Fzd89WYzFyqRqwYsLrhbEEwObyxwTEq2jw+I5k41/f1jRBViRKBBDJk0oB5HnaIv3n DeRrQJEfBsaZg5cgzF229Hw4qZnq5OG6aYAoEOiV6XAnu7j2Z9eJrg6ucoEkdpDg4Qc8 so9rxYin4r1bLxqyA5Cq79r/32BKnNLIrcw2aqX4FH/cGptnf+hHIKRCz9nxJOzyvqnp zsnj3ejNPzc0m6lgyRupC8fHbT53YNpuHT4mydxVWHZKNDZtgo3A7T017o+LlKhs2ewd 414ghadvT8zn1FsHrcAAXhY+Fb1cTGPy3TxqhUNglVP4a7CBQ2DgRZOPZThPYseaacEz sIkA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=kFZ9X4n5+CSaTMclfVeR0oxMRkbvQZXvkTMG4RwAZ+o=; b=KhL1K7VxuJTzitAQhWvk4HrE92SV/rkZNi+c5l8M0XdBJGN0otqsHOZaNS3JXL8Nxf eazgAjMcYvJUT0/3gPwbTSotWzaswceOwcijR2TBXR4ufoTeabYkHIi+f10Z+wBV+AFY Tmxl/Z4V7mNXHRVxGh1J02lYcJ00frcmjcS6ojMPHVT5cPyM79DFG1rtH3lvIpEBUVhe C4ivot34eEgrWUUcJe8y7SFyfm0epy3sYVBvGVhN5nZqh/EwOxapyj3ULjdE578Ihl/k LL+lRTSq/J7U4tpR7ijHWNUv6CC+EuEYhIUlvANwXBTHCosmj/OaQu/4DlfVw0/CXOy8 d00A== X-Gm-Message-State: AEkooutg2zz+/jRMM+d4SOU7grXWoYcmRxBOINl9iz2U4noUIL6QpDizuYjPBy0K6c3gojGwj0dmuYH5RkIQ/Q== X-Received: by 10.36.37.146 with SMTP id g140mr67987349itg.58.1470241175644; Wed, 03 Aug 2016 09:19:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4D908BD0-F141-476E-BD4B-870C7F8AC5E1@noqsi.com> References: <20160722171754 DOT GB17595 AT localhost DOT localdomain> <20160723065723 DOT GC17595 AT localhost DOT localdomain> <20160723092248 DOT GF17595 AT localhost DOT localdomain> <20160724053502 DOT GM17595 AT localhost DOT localdomain> <9719FF2C-AC85-4824-89E9-447216E7FA65 AT sbcglobal DOT net> <939E39F7-B4DA-4B56-A640-C7E6E4ECF955 AT sbcglobal DOT net> <9ED612EF-E3F5-48CC-8FB3-B67CA7DEE432 AT noqsi DOT com> <9D554144-D41A-463F-955F-68227BC3D167 AT noqsi DOT com> <4D908BD0-F141-476E-BD4B-870C7F8AC5E1 AT noqsi DOT com> From: "Ouabache Designworks (z3qmtr45 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 09:19:34 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [geda-user] Plans for gEDA/gaf (was: [OT] ngspice integration in KiCad) To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11444200029e7805392d339e Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk --001a11444200029e7805392d339e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 8:05 AM, John Doty wrote: > > On Aug 3, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Svenn Are Bjerkem ( > svenn DOT bjerkem AT googlemail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] < > geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote: > > > On 2 August 2016 at 23:02, John Doty wrote: > >> The way I do it is to have a project symbol directory. I copy the > necessary > >> symbols from libraries into there. It=E2=80=99s safer to keep speciali= zed > symbols > >> bundled with the project anyway. Libraries get revised. > > > > As an example, a "reuse" project. New design using two legacy modules > > which are space-proven but have never been used in the same project > > before. The modules are created by two separate designers, both who > > are not you. > > > > mydesign/sym/lib_eth/decoder-1.sym > > mydesign/sym/lib_uart/decoder-1.sym > > > > How to solve without renaming? > > Why not rename? If you constrain the solution unnecessarily, you just win= d > up with complexity. > > I do import subcircuits from previous projects occasionally, and I run > into this, rarely. I don=E2=80=99t see any reason that one couldn=E2=80= =99t write a utility > to manage this, but it=E2=80=99s not worth the effort to me. These rare c= ases are > easily managed manually. > > In any case, this is most definitely not the responsibility of the > schematic editor in a well-factored EDA toolkit. > > This is the difference between a small data environment like PCB entry and big data like a half billion gate asic. What you see as a rare event is now a frequent and almost expected occurrence. Doing anything manually is a huge risk in any asic design. You automate everything or else you will be buried under a tsunami of code. What happens if you bring in code that needs a fix that you simply change it yourself? Five years later a new team is formed to design the follow on product to your current design. They will start with your chip design and then add ,delete or modify code for the new product. They will download the latest versions of all your modules from their sources. Somebody on the new team will need to go in and exactly duplicate the work that you did on that module. Did you leave enough documentation that they know what needs to be done? As your designs grow you have to formalize and document everything to a much greater extent than you do now. John Eaton --001a11444200029e7805392d339e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 8:05 AM, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wr= ote:

On Aug 3, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Svenn Are Bjerkem (svenn DOT bjerkem AT googlemail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:

> On 2 August 2016 at 23:02, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote:
>> The way I do it is to have a project symbol directory. I copy the = necessary
>> symbols from libraries into there. It=E2=80=99s safer to keep spec= ialized symbols
>> bundled with the project anyway. Libraries get revised.
>
> As an example, a "reuse" project. New design using two legac= y modules
> which are space-proven but have never been used in the same project > before. The modules are created by two separate designers, both who > are not you.
>
> mydesign/sym/lib_eth/decoder-1.sym
> mydesign/sym/lib_uart/decoder-1.sym
>
> How to solve without renaming?

Why not rename? If you constrain the solution unnecessarily, you jus= t wind up with complexity.

I do import subcircuits from previous projects occasionally, and I run into= this, rarely. I don=E2=80=99t see any reason that one couldn=E2=80=99t wri= te a utility to manage this, but it=E2=80=99s not worth the effort to me. T= hese rare cases are easily managed manually.

In any case, this is most definitely not the responsibility of the schemati= c editor in a well-factored EDA toolkit.



T= his is the difference between a small data environment like PCB entry and b= ig data like a half billion gate asic. What you see as a
rare event is now a frequent and almost expected occurren= ce. Doing anything manually is a huge risk in any asic design. You automate= everything or else you will be buried under a tsunami of code.

What happens if you bring in code that needs a= fix that you simply change it yourself? Five years later a new team is for= med to design the follow on product to your current design. They will start= with your chip design and then add ,delete or modify code for the new prod= uct. They will download the latest versions of all your modules from their = sources.

Somebody on the new team w= ill need to go in and exactly duplicate the work that you did on that modul= e. Did you leave enough
documentation t= hat they know what needs to be done? As your designs grow you have to forma= lize and document everything to a much greater extent than you do now.
<= br>
John Eaton








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