X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-TCPREMOTEIP: 63.119.35.194 X-Authenticated-UID: jpd AT noqsi DOT com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E35E02C5-49F3-4D37-90E7-7A0418FEFCCA"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: [geda-user] Plans for gEDA/gaf (was: [OT] ngspice integration in KiCad) X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail From: John Doty In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 17:02:18 -0400 Message-Id: <04E40D61-BEBC-4849-93EE-1D6A68EC1F1A@noqsi.com> References: <20160722171754 DOT GB17595 AT localhost DOT localdomain> <20160723065723 DOT GC17595 AT localhost DOT localdomain> <20160723092248 DOT GF17595 AT localhost DOT localdomain> <20160724053502 DOT GM17595 AT localhost DOT localdomain> <9719FF2C-AC85-4824-89E9-447216E7FA65 AT sbcglobal DOT net> <939E39F7-B4DA-4B56-A640-C7E6E4ECF955 AT sbcglobal DOT net> <9ED612EF-E3F5-48CC-8FB3-B67CA7DEE432 AT noqsi DOT com> <9D554144-D41A-463F-955F-68227BC3D167 AT noqsi DOT com> To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk --Apple-Mail=_E35E02C5-49F3-4D37-90E7-7A0418FEFCCA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_31DACA03-B133-4CDE-923B-8F924E676B13" --Apple-Mail=_31DACA03-B133-4CDE-923B-8F924E676B13 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On Aug 2, 2016, at 4:01 PM, Ouabache Designworks (z3qmtr45 AT gmail DOT com) = [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 11:56 AM, John Doty wrote: >=20 > On Aug 2, 2016, at 2:18 PM, Ouabache Designworks (z3qmtr45 AT gmail DOT com) = [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 10:27 AM, John Doty wrote: >>=20 >> On Aug 2, 2016, at 11:55 AM, Ouabache Designworks = (z3qmtr45 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] = wrote: >>=20 >>> This group has shown almost no interest in features that are needed = by IC designers if they are not also needed by PCB designers. >>=20 >> What do you imagine IC designers need? I design mixed-signal ASICs in = gschem, and do not perceive any limits. Just another application for a = complete, general purpose network topology editor. >>=20 >> John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. >> http://www.noqsi.com/ >> jpd AT noqsi DOT com >>=20 >>=20 >> How about libraries that you can download that don't have naming = collisions with other libraries? >=20 > Since you have complete control of your library path, why is this a = problem? Just put together the library *your* project needs. No big = deal. Certainly not something that requires a new *feature*. >=20 >=20 > So I need part A from Library foo and part B from library bar when = both libs have both parts. How do I set up the search path? The way I do it is to have a project symbol directory. I copy the = necessary symbols from libraries into there. It=92s safer to keep = specialized symbols bundled with the project anyway. Libraries get = revised. >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> How about complete hierarchical design support with uniquification? >=20 > I=92m not sure what your problem is. My ASICs are hierarchical (of = course). >=20 > When I descend down into a component instance then I want to see the = schematic using all the elaborated values instead of the attribute = names. Cute, but how much time would this actually save? (I hate cute, = time-wasting =93features=94) In any case, you could probably do this = with gschem scripting in Guile. >=20 >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> How about Busses? IC's need support for wires,vectors and busses. = Gschem does wires with some graphic support for vectors but nothing for = busses. >=20 > Need? Maybe they would be nice, but I haven=92t really missed them. = Mostly you want them in complex digital parts, I think. If that was the = kind of chip I was doing, I=92d do those straight in HDL, not draw them = in gschem. In any case, there=92s nothing preventing you giving a net a = name that describes a bus, and dealing with that downstream. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Wires and vectors have inputs and outputs. Busses have masters and = slaves. You need to support bundling wires,vectors and busses into = bigger busses, passing it up and down hierarchies and then splitting = everything back apart at the end. Analogues of some of that are in my experimental gnetlist back end for = drawing Makefiles. It=92s just a matter of a little Guile scripting, = really. = http://www.delorie.com/archives/browse.cgi?p=3Dgeda-user/2015/10/12/13:53:= 03. =93Net=94 lines don=92t need to know much about what they represent = when they can learn from the pins connected to them. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ jpd AT noqsi DOT com --Apple-Mail=_31DACA03-B133-4CDE-923B-8F924E676B13 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
On Aug 2, 2016, at 4:01 PM, Ouabache = Designworks (z3qmtr45 AT gmail DOT com)= [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] = <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>= wrote:



On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 11:56 AM, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote:

On Aug 2, 2016, at 2:18 PM, Ouabache Designworks (z3qmtr45 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> = wrote:



On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 = at 10:27 AM, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote:

On Aug 2, 2016, at = 11:55 AM, Ouabache Designworks (z3qmtr45 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> = wrote:

This group has shown = almost no interest in features that are needed by IC designers if they = are not also needed by PCB designers.

What do you imagine IC = designers need? I design mixed-signal ASICs in gschem, and do not = perceive any limits. Just another application for a complete, general = purpose network topology editor.

John = Doty        =     =   Noqsi Aerospace, = Ltd.


How about libraries that you can download = that don't have naming collisions with other = libraries?

Since you = have complete control of your library path, why is this a problem? Just = put together the library *your* project needs. No big deal. Certainly = not something that requires a new *feature*.


So I = need part A from Library foo and part B from library bar when both libs = have both parts. How do I set up the search = path?

The way I = do it is to have a project symbol directory. I copy the necessary = symbols from libraries into there. It=92s safer to keep specialized = symbols bundled with the project anyway. Libraries get = revised.


 

How about = complete hierarchical design support with = uniquification?

I=92m = not sure what your problem is. My ASICs are hierarchical (of = course).

When I descend down into = a component instance then I want to see the schematic using all the = elaborated values instead of the attribute = names.

Cute, but = how much time would this actually save? (I hate cute, time-wasting = =93features=94) In any case, you could probably do this with gschem = scripting in Guile.


 


How about = Busses? IC's need support for wires,vectors and busses. Gschem does = wires with some graphic support for vectors but nothing for = busses.

Need? Maybe = they would be nice, but I haven=92t really missed them. Mostly you want = them in complex digital parts, I think. If that was the kind of chip I = was doing, I=92d do those straight in HDL, not draw them in gschem. In = any case, there=92s nothing preventing you giving a net a name that = describes a bus, and dealing with that downstream.



Wir= es and vectors have inputs and outputs. Busses have masters and = slaves.  You need to support bundling wires,vectors and busses into = bigger busses, passing it up and down hierarchies and then splitting = everything back apart at the = end.

Analogues of = some of that are in my experimental gnetlist back end for drawing = Makefiles. It=92s just a matter of a little Guile scripting, = really. http://www.delorie.com/archives/browse.cgi?p=3Dgeda-user/2015/= 10/12/13:53:03. =93Net=94 lines don=92t need to know much about what = they represent when they can learn from the pins connected to = them.

John = Doty        =       Noqsi = Aerospace, Ltd.

http://www.noqsi.com/

jpd AT noqsi DOT com



= --Apple-Mail=_31DACA03-B133-4CDE-923B-8F924E676B13-- --Apple-Mail=_E35E02C5-49F3-4D37-90E7-7A0418FEFCCA Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJXoQpbAAoJEF1Aj/0UKykRP5MP/1QCDni0I+yhzyva/LpFgkAg jREMCC2foA86y+8/nV3IZbyBkJ2wsAkUkHOr6HoRqHFZNxmPXaPqvgZuF3IHq4JI juIx+/2yJkSA1/owvZhsJOzMqbE8fonqDpcbXEvtGmvELImcoIyYalzyBbh5/LxR hPu3X9pJfaxd/8XWTnoX1L1lXnoE6ku4IkPee9NbLQYf0BguRtDmmcuBN9NJmsyN vL+tOw3pkD2ck7S4CDK26LJgl+SSuctxiXFQSHM1MlwO0MSIp89B5mZafWd16vAZ kx16T62UjyGoz23x43Fh32OXHOsNcpr3k/D4u9CR+lGlifc1dnitA9RVSq2xMWJP PL545MQcPkBge9ASgASaXS3cuxCok1bPlq5JSDzOgEcAfwAA5P6wNkJGiT0916Ia KTYEW1hDyLhLd25TO4Fqfk3DkblEJ5UWt9UjOJWLtL6xxwGD8ocKuXy8ub/kLe3u xj2uyYgU7U65S3AI00aVwQp44xs/2ruvUileLYmpNUpcq17cvs9lwkDXoWn8T5F4 BB0VULdMsBdt9pLIH1rZa+kVRWCL/OZpCuuNz8anRfrr7RYFbcSxGHNd0LIaGpgC VA3IuOGsPnKoiJsZsLK/HJELiAQFnzKgHOnQdddbp9U1tPlH7s5+DpcPwZLaSxec ZYggBat2UwpRkPSBiuXI =lTQ+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_E35E02C5-49F3-4D37-90E7-7A0418FEFCCA--