X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=D1wrV7OX0/367/YBI+4A4YJyllIRdck/qyO+bbRzhDQ=; b=sJXYv9HHSUa3NONEt48GdUANUBXEJlsDVzqJLRcnKR3mWwz0D+bxyG4/IcNhiSe9S4 PGQgBsmrVAXJelR1H1G728YuIUNgyIlQ51GeXphLQRagbMlUxl+E4pn4zoOQk4up37Gu ysPq7OXWzigP2RFULLE+0iA2h7Na3rXT4uBjVtA6Rd6EdNsx2Z3HVBx3Q0jdz7OP9z6Q YDMFKudSlP11DdsDYLLlRgmquNbJwBusoaFRi2XwLN3k88js6eXB0VZMRAalPVuUzYjM 4vBR3urM+9VfH5SQLJoxgnK8qbGFCjFlm2qsvGam4zmSpbhI+Zf5lLP2JSJxtmcJodVg NQtg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=D1wrV7OX0/367/YBI+4A4YJyllIRdck/qyO+bbRzhDQ=; b=dyE8AFz+OCuk1Cb+3ED56vMuj4o9Bun8Mnjq6Tk4fr6JjJAgT/RL0Q1vaBzKiwRJT0 yEvEe7pemO88Tk6AzBiQ66UmhLGVTT4rG7haIOmJyxYNPNRIaIDsMl7yxue+RiReXNC3 qx/9XV66dp9Mv0+8PtHtn9CU7fY2JaFmScLlgnmEolsmYGslUQx6ujcm4fTmzd5okoba y+Iuxrg0u3QZybo7Mol6txV35SKlQVJ22pN94YJXSzWW8EuKDhjsuyuT+D3sxUBqVuSu 4OdlGywvgbZ8mkJEac0P+kznROwAnQNG1KjZc0g7S+QsHAZi5EbxnGtDRheVqRUAhanD HxJw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tKC5g5pL6orCVH9c4A7Mz8rDgrJMrssZDiVqst/OPn32WwMZE4JFHJBcunVpVpk/Q== X-Received: by 10.194.123.166 with SMTP id mb6mr23417226wjb.94.1467819208331; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 08:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 17:33:23 +0200 From: "Nicklas Karlsson (nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Subject: Re: [geda-user] RFC: project files (pcb-rnd) and multiple pcbs (tabs) Message-Id: <20160706173323.cad7efb51205418b43a5f097@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.5.0beta1 (GTK+ 2.24.25; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk Make is a powerful tool to keep track of which files need to be updated. Maybe a Makefile could do the trick. On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 09:02:15 +0200 (CEST) gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu wrote: > Hi all, > > there's a flamewar-triggering topic: project files. I am trying to make > non-intrusive, optional project files for pcb-rnd. I'm interested in geda > user's feedback on my plans. As always, I am determined to carry this out, > so it's not just yet-another-bike-shedding-thread: whether the thread > yields useful comments or not, code will be written, and project file > support will exist (... as it already did for ages, see later). So please > try to be constructive to make the result better! > > As usual: nothing proposed for mainline pcb, geda, gaf, gschem. I am > interested in pcb.geda/gaf/gschem user opinions to integrate them in the > pcb-rnd, gsch2pcb-rnd and cschem toolset. > > *** > > First, how project files can be done without turning them into an Evil > Tool Of Integration: > > A project file is a collection of settings and file names (paths) and > metadata. It tries to fully or partially describe a project. It binds > things in one direction: describes what the project consists of, but does > not tie a given source (pcb, sch, etc) to a single project. In other > words, it is for remembering how a project can be put together, but it > does not affect the independency of each source file. Source files can be > referenced from multiple projects. There can be source files never > referenced from any project. > > A project file is totally optional: if an user feels the need to have a > project file, he can have one; other users can use the same source files > manually, totally ignoring any existing project file and complex projects > can exist without project files. > > A project file can be partial: it's a collection of optional extra > settings/info. When a project file is passed to a tool, any setting that > is not specified to the tool (e.g. on command line) can be loaded from the > project file. E.g. it's normal to use a project file to only specify > library paths and leave input/output file names to a Makefile. > > Multiple tools can understand the same project file, but not all tools > must understand it. Pro: the same settings (e.g. library search path for > pcb and gsch2pcb) don't need to be specified/maintained in different > files in parallel. Con: it's obviously impossible to get all existing > tools to learn a single configuration language. It's not the goal > either, see extraction/conversion later. > > Tools dealing with the project file are required to be able to pick out > the parts they are interested in and leave unknown parts intact even in a > load-save cycle. This obviously needs some generic container format. (For > pcb-rnd my choice is lihata.) > > For tools that don't implement support for the project file: smallish > utilities can be provided that extract parts of the project file and > generate tool-specific rc, config or porject files. > > *** > > History > > The concept is not new. gsch2pcb had optional project files for ages, but > they were not generic enough, e.g. library search paths had to be > specified there and then explained to pcb too. The non-intrusive property > has been there for ages too: gsch2pcb can work with and without project > files. > > *** > > Motivation > > I often have small projects with multiple sch and pcb files and custom > footprint and/or symbol settings. I don't really like that I need to keep > multiple config files in sync to get tools work together on the project. > If the same tools understand eachother's file formats, they should > also understand some common config. If the way of undestanding file > formats is through external or semi-external tools (e.g. gnetlist, > gsch2pcb), perhaps the same way should be applied to the project file. As > a programer I care about such implementation detail, but as an user I > don't. > > I don't believe "different tools understanding a common standard" means > "integration" or is evil by default. > > *** > > Next, what should go in a project file, and this is where I am > especially interested in feedback. Please remember that any of these are > optional and may be partial. A valid project file can even omit all of > these and be empty (with some minimal header). > > 1. settings of tools; pcb-rnd already can read a config tree (as role > CFR_PROJECT) from a project file. In practice this means any pcb-rnd > configuration can be changed (weakly or strongly) from a project file. A > common example is prepending or appending library search paths. > > 2. lists of files the project consists of; probably list per type, e.g. a > list of schematics pages, a list of pcb files. Editors speaking > the common project file language _optionally_ can load a project file, > which at least means they can open all input files from one of the lists. > As an optional extra editors can also load config subtrees from the > project file (in practice: gsch2pcb-rnd and pcb-rnd load the same config > tree from the project file so footprint library search path can be > common). > > 3. metadata: project description, copyright, URLs to the VCS, comments, > etc. > > > *** > > PCB-related question: gschem can deal with multiple pages open, pcb and > pcb-rnd can have only one file open. Is it worth adding "tabs" to pcb-rnd > and let it open multiple files? > > Or is this a viable alternative: a "switch file" menu; when a project is > loaded, the first pcb file is presented. The "switch file" menu is almost > the same as the normal load dialog, but it offers only the pcb files > referenced from the project file. Switching is still the same operation as > load pcb, so only one pcb open at a time and you have to save before > switch. This fake multi-pcb setup works only with project files, when a > .pcb is loaded explicitly, the project is unloaded, "switdch file" is > disabled. > > > TIA, > > Igor2 >