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Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 09:39:14 -0400
Message-ID: <CAM2RGhQdpVzVMJwoQLCAyEnjjW93HztOFu+Fbihg5C0dzJ-+Ug@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [geda-user] GTK3, Glade interface designer (router, auto?)
From: "Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
To: gEDA users mailing list <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
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On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 11:34 PM,  <gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 5 Oct 2015, Dave McGuire (mcguire AT neurotica DOT com) [via
> geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
>
>> On 10/05/2015 10:46 PM, gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu wrote:
>>>
>>> On my poll the actual users who really voted made scripting win. If you
>>> look at the list traffic this summer, you will see that a considerable
>>> amount of text was pro or contra guile/scheme in gschem.
>>>
>>> The _real_ user base also installs binaries from their distro's
>>> repository. They are also not subscribed to this list or if they are,
>>> they almost never speak up. They don't care about forks, branches, they
>>> install whatever their distro has.
>>>
>>> On this list we have mostly power users who has already forked or have
>>> their own branch in git, or stuck with a specific past vesion of the
>>> official stuff or using the head version. They happily comment ideas and
>>> mails after reading only 1/3 of the text.
>>>
>>> If anyone does anything new in a fork or branch or whervere that doesn't
>>> end up instanty in the head or in distros, there will be no more than 2
>>> people on the list who actually download, compile, try and _then_
>>> comment the stuff. If you disagree, prove me wrong by prividing a list
>>> of links to the recent list archives.
>>>
>>> What geda, pcb, pcb-rnd, xorn, and other related projects don't have is
>>> a small, but active user base who are willing to try experimental code
>>> and provide feedback according to the actual tests, not according to
>>> reading mails.
>>>
>>> Considering these, the best we can do is to ask the list as I did and
>>> then believe the results, whatever they are. What you do, telling us
>>> what the user base don't care about, is mere speculation - you don't
>>> have more access to the real opinion of the actual user base than any of
>>> us. You can share your own opinion and assume the user base has the same
>>> opinion. This is not better than a poll in any way.
>>
>>
>>  Well, considering the fact that I use gEDA and PCB nearly every day,
>> *I* am the user base.  And to watch the traffic around here, I'm the
>> only guy busy actually USING this stuff!
>
>
> I am an user too in that sense. Britton too. We both say scripting is good,
> so you are losing this by rate 2:1.

I also wanted scripting. 3:1

> When I did that poll, others voted for scripting too. If I get it right, you
> say those opinions do not matter. I was wondering why do you think so: are
> those not users? Is your opinion worth more than other users' opinion? Did
> you do another poll and you have more representative data?
>
>>  This project has gyrated into inaction, and this recent ****storm of
>> traffic hasn't improved anything.  There have been childish turf wars,
>> YET MORE forks, whining babies who can't seem to wrap their little
>> brains around what has to be one of the simplest programming languages
>> ever developed, and whining grownups who insist that nothing should ever
>> change, for any reason, until the end of time.  And yet more
>> inexplicable blather about Windows support!
>
> Again, speaking as an user: it did improve a lot of things for me. After
> this summer I do have more than 5 features that I was missing for years. Now
> they are there and I use them.
>
> The most thing that did the improvement was sitting down and coding. Mailing
> list traffic was ~95% useless weaste of bandwidth but the remaining small
> portion helped.
>
> I am trying to point out that you are doing exactly what you were talking
> against: write emails about your own personal preferences, or even, about
> denying needs/preferences of other users, while not improving the project in
> any way.
>
>>
>>  SO yes, I'll speculate, I'll be a user, and I'll give you feedback AS
>> a user.  But you've just proven that you're not interested in that
>> feedback, surprisingly enough.  So I guess I'll just sit back and watch
>> as people argue and create forks.
>
>
> I'm fine with you being one of the users. One. Not more. Did you vote in my
> poll? No. Is your opinion worth more than the opinion of any other user? No.

+1

> And no, I don't doubt your right to come and complain about opinions of
> other users.

+1

> Regards,
>
> Igor2



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