X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to :user-agent; bh=xBKggHNVFMRFIYRpgGxRQWdptqq8W3x6bxhfzR0a1BQ=; b=xQk7vaSFw3TERSARxPUX+5nvh25tfGw+goVE3+MVi+bxsCqQTCtSyTBDxm12zVw7es x2MR6JOb5L4rTnviD5dgxhBnR+oN1LX3kRc78sZinY2VZ7XmYN0ui9dkJ8NNjOwQxV7o AJqgVGT1RdAfP2ZBN6d06cwnHcYO/oTqR+shpbmMyMM20O3pDtF3lB+UUz8qyuAnFvXG h9XyEsMsHj8shugKrEr/3LyiMJDWCoZHaqHIeEUqUUSMAEELL+QJlR3FkPXk/mKpxfbk fbK4Z6tHOeNV73zmC2wiumlEgs1GOHctlLRh3AFQnqaFNWqoharbkD759/P2/03eU4Dm 4CJg== X-Received: by 10.152.29.167 with SMTP id l7mr11655525lah.57.1441525195764; Sun, 06 Sep 2015 00:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 10:39:53 +0300 From: "Vladimir Zhbanov (vzhbanov AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Subject: Re: [geda-user] New experimental netlist features Message-ID: <20150906073953.GB2637@localhost.localdomain> Mail-Followup-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com References: <55E97A3E DOT 2070402 AT jump-ing DOT de> <69B8B3F4-A6E4-43E9-9055-C63A5D6A3707 AT noqsi DOT com> <55E9BD63 DOT 8070407 AT jump-ing DOT de> <201509051930 DOT t85JUlTh019874 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <20150905210158 DOT GC7185 AT localhost DOT localdomain> <201509052107 DOT t85L7sHL024299 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <20150905213959 DOT GE7185 AT localhost DOT localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk On Sat, Sep 05, 2015 at 11:35:49PM +0000, Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: ... > You have my agreement until you get to scheme. Irrespective of > technical attracting new developers is harder when you are using a > language that is itself falling in popularity. It is just another > barrier to entry for new contributors. Most people already know C > almost no one comes to this project already knowing scheme. Some fifteen years ago, in my DOS/Windows life, nobody around me programmed in C. What I saw were Pascal/Delphy, various Basic's and Assemblers. After moving on Linux, I found C is everywhere, beginning from kernel. Again, around me Unix/Linux is a marginal stuff. > > Even John Dotty seemed to agree that we need an alternative to scheme. Yes, yes, I could even agree ;) But not two parallel versions with new dependencies in one repository. How to support them? How to support cross-compiling in this case? There is another way. Let's make bindings for various languages since gobject model allows this. Let's introduce plugins/modules, and we already have modules in scheme. OTOH, the first program where I've seen and tried to use guile was gimp. Look at it. They started from scheme and now support python and perl. http://wiki.gimp.org/wiki/Hacking:Plugins No revolution, no destroying. And that is the most successful open-source project in this niche I know of. > > > OK, I see the message. Get out, stupid ancient fools, your time is > > out ;) The new generation is coming... > > For quite a while there the message the developers were sending was... > Stay away you newcomers, we know the user base wants this but they > don't understand the tool as well as we do. The users are a collection > of Partially agreed, though it's only one part of the story. Another part is, nobody wants to rewrite sloppy written/bug prone stuff. And some new developers just excuse their fear/reluctance to make code more accurate with the thesis that the major developers are cruel/arrogant etc. > > Igor2 started this fork because people were unwilling to accept his > contributions. Looking back the same people drove me out too. Lets not > start that again. And because he prefers to stand apart from the community requiring the majority to follow his preferences in order to collaborate. Cheers, Vladimir