X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1487091209-0978df03114e5db0001-9re8WH X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: gheskett AT shentel DOT net X-Barracuda-RBL-Trusted-Forwarder: 204.111.2.25 From: "Gene Heskett (gheskett AT shentel DOT net) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" X-Barracuda-Effective-Source-IP: n64s149.fttx.shentel.net[204.111.64.149] X-Barracuda-Apparent-Source-IP: 204.111.64.149 X-Barracuda-RBL-IP: 204.111.64.149 To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Subject: Re: [geda-user] We are about to alienate users was -> geda-gaf fork Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 11:53:28 -0500 X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [geda-user] We are about to alienate users was -> geda-gaf fork User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10 (enterprise35 0.20100827.1168748) References: <7276b7ff-d4af-64cf-2906-f656369f8f85 AT iae DOT nl> <5d312c0b-00a5-c81b-8743-893fca16a54d AT wellesley DOT edu> In-Reply-To: <5d312c0b-00a5-c81b-8743-893fca16a54d@wellesley.edu> X-KMail-QuotePrefix: > MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <201702141153.28798.gheskett@shentel.net> X-Barracuda-Connect: smtp2.edbg.cloud.shentel.net[204.111.2.25] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1487091209 X-Barracuda-URL: https://204.111.1.146:443/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Scan-Msg-Size: 2872 X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at cloud.shentel.net X-Barracuda-BRTS-Status: 1 X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.50 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.50 using per-user scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=6.0 tests=WEIRD_PORT X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.3.36509 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.50 WEIRD_PORT URI: Uses non-standard port number for HTTP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by delorie.com id v1EGtlhX008374 Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com On Tuesday 14 February 2017 10:56:00 James Battat (jbattat AT wellesley DOT edu) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: > On 2/14/17 10:29 AM, myken wrote: > > On 14/02/17 15:47, John Doty wrote: > >> The problem is that there’s no clear line here. gEDA isn’t consumer > >> software. Many users who are not core developers are contributors, > >> especially at gedasymbols.org. If you expect to be a consumer of > >> some integrated thing, gEDA isn’t for you anyway. > > > > Sure, but no new user is a contributor at the beginning of his/her > > interest. They are just looking for confirmation that it is safe to > > invest time into the suite. And believe me listing in on the > > geda-user list will not give you that confirmation. And as a > > contributor you may also not be interested in the development stuff. > > geda-users, geda-contrib, geda-develp, geda-rant. > > > > But then again make a choice. If you all want gEDA to be a obscure > > specialised tool only accessible by the die-hards and core uses, > > please do so. Nothing needs to change then :-) > > +1. > > And I'll add that I really don't understand why some folks on this > list take on the attitude reflected in John D.'s comment: > "If you expect to be a consumer of some integrated thing, gEDA > isn’t for you anyway." > 1) why does a user have to become a developer? Surely you'd get > satisfaction if the tools that you have invested so much time in are > useful to other people as-is. > 2) how do you expect to attract and retain users or developers with > this stance? I'll do another +1 here. As an amateur who started making pcb's with tape on mylar back in the 1960's, I have tried to use this suite of tools several times, but everytime the parts count rises above 5 or 6, I am driven back to the free version of eagle. Keeping up with the lastest versions of eagle can be frustrating, but the frustration level is less per part with a higher part count. You eventually get used to it. Today I'd cut mine with an engraving tool on a milling machine, and compatibility with pcb2gcode and its ilk would be a huge plus. Last board I made, 8 parts IIRC for a charge pump detector, I just sat down and wrote the traces I needed directly in gcode. I could print the schematic, no big deal, but how the heck to get a .brd file out of it escaped me. So discouraged I by that I haven't even tried geda in about a year. You folks are all scratching your particular itch, without considering the user friendly part. And thats pretty well driven this user to eagle for good for 8 parts or more projects. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page