X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f
X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new (Uni-Kiel/l3ms-sc)
From: geda AT psjt DOT org (Stephan =?utf-8?Q?B=C3=B6ttcher?=)
To: "Peter Clifton \(petercjclifton\@googlemail.com\) \[via geda-user\@delorie.com\]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
Subject: Re: [geda-user] Primitive electrical types --> layers
References: <CAJXU7q8edycnyhZbZ7+M3q6HA13U4Tr5R9M7KAG59HVpH2+cMg AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<56928D6F DOT 6080807 AT ecosensory DOT com>
	<CE3B7FFB-7C6F-48CB-ADA9-A42D85A3C022 AT noqsi DOT com>
	<5692AFEC DOT 9060807 AT ecosensory DOT com>
	<20160110213849 DOT 460c7bb14e8f6645138bebd8 AT gmail DOT com>
	<s6nsi25doll DOT fsf AT blaulicht DOT dmz DOT brux>
	<20160111080228 DOT GA32662 AT visitor2 DOT iram DOT es>
	<20160111094144 DOT bee82694c414c1cc36b98cf8 AT gmail DOT com>
	<s6nmvscs6ib DOT fsf AT falbala DOT ieap DOT uni-kiel DOT de>
	<CAJXU7q8dz9-EHMLKy-ED=mTQHM230zWYh0PGaoOkA3ZnwjAR8w AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 15:43:15 +0100
In-Reply-To: <CAJXU7q8dz9-EHMLKy-ED=mTQHM230zWYh0PGaoOkA3ZnwjAR8w@mail.gmail.com>
	(Peter Clifton's message of "Mon, 11 Jan 2016 11:39:06 +0000")
Message-ID: <s6nziwc18jg.fsf@falbala.ieap.uni-kiel.de>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by delorie.com id u0BEhL20017303
Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com
X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com
Precedence: bulk

"Peter Clifton (petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via
geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> writes:

> On 11 January 2016 at 11:25, Stephan Böttcher (geda AT psjt DOT org) [via
> geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
>> I want the Gerber exporter to export exactly what I draw.  And I will
>> draw exactly what the boardhouse wants.  And I don't want the PCB
>> program to complain if it assigns semantics in a different way as the
>> boardhouse.
>>
>
> That would not be a problem, especially if you chose not to use the
> facilities (soon to be) provided by the tools for doing this in a more
> robust way.
>
> In this case, you'd retain a mechanical, or notes layer, which the tool
> will not treat specially, or apply semantic meaning to it.

Thanks.

That is exactly what I have good use for.  Simple drawing layers that
are exported to gerber without via pads and holes, and that are not
checked for connectivity or DRC.  I have PCB files with more non-coper
layers than copper layers.  I export those after an awk script deleted
all Vias and Pins.  It is all for documentation, images made with gerbv.

One of those is a rigid-flex board, with another awk script to export
the second pair of outer layers.

I do not understand why this is more difficult than attaching some layer
attributes (except for the second pair of outer layers).  I am not
asking for special mechanical, or notes layers.  I believe the copper
layers should be special, because the need attributes that tell DRC to
check them, or LVS to check connectivity, and a Layer attribute that
tells Vias to automatically connect to them until proper Via stacks
become available.

>> If somebody insists on 3D models in a PCB layout tool, then there need
>> to be separate drawings for the boardhouse and the 3D model.  And the
>> programm please work well without any of the 3D stuff drawn.
>>
>
> Granted, but and I'm rather starting to take offence that you don't seem to
> respect I know what I'm doing here.

There was certainly no offence implied, I am sorry if you understood it
like that.  I am sure you know what you are doing and what your coals
are.  But I am not sure I fully understood what you were telling us, or
if I like it.

The -user part of these discussions is about telling how we use the
tools.  I just meant to do that.

I like the fundamentals of gaf.  A few drawing primitives and lots of
possibilities by adding attributes.  PCB is almost there.  Allow
attributes on everything, a good naming convention for those, and
anybody can write plugins and hids for whatever is needed.

Strangely, John is complaining that PCB has too little real-world
semantics attached to its core primitives, in contrast to what he values
in gaf.

If you work on a 3D GUI hid that allows board design similar to a
mechanical CAD program, that will be wonderful.  But I wish that this
may be done in a new HID.  What support does that need from the PCB
core?

I may well have use for proper 3D board models, that I can hand over
to our mechanics people to import into the CAD.  But for most boards I
may not want to be distracted by all the infrastructure this needs.  And
even for the boards where I do want a 3D model, I may not want to bother
about that while drawing traces.

-- 
Stephan