X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at neurotica.com X-NSA-prism-xkeyscore: I do not consent to surveillance, prick X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=neurotica.com; s=default; t=1436243844; bh=YZ+V1CxSj9iJTmILb4RaeMABDckYldWUpiw5rdjVDQ8=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=WFSlVQ4tSTbhMgGBOmHtU3wP+w1/uUh+7rAYjmr+UhWLOaDhTMcC2hWY9c0gLEQGK yQc6tSQTAM/KRvrB8at2047tbLriPWteYtu0Cg3QeGFnnMr9Uy+QRNs3iQCXJSfERQ j8ES3AeYMYv/lqclInnudrHPyJX33RXOVIv1OkdU= Message-ID: <559B5783.40100@neurotica.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 00:37:23 -0400 From: "Dave McGuire (mcguire AT neurotica DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Subject: Re: [geda-user] OT-PL/M References: <1435510363 DOT 682 DOT 26 DOT camel AT ssalewski DOT de> <20150703030409 DOT 32398 DOT qmail AT stuge DOT se> <20150703191532 DOT GB21182 AT localhost DOT localdomain> <20150705021010 DOT 369968038A2C AT turkos DOT aspodata DOT se> <559AC9B8 DOT 7020205 AT sbcglobal DOT net> <1343E2EB-4A4D-46E0-BD87-FCBD230A1C50 AT noqsi DOT com> <559B0A29 DOT 7040403 AT neurotica DOT com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by delorie.com id t674bk7O024682 Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com On 07/06/2015 08:02 PM, John Doty wrote: >>>> More history: In the early 80s, IBM first went to Gary Kildall >>>> of CP/M for their IBM-PC DOS. CP/M did have several PL/M >>>> modules (pip for one). If Gary had not ignored IBM and go >>>> sailing instead of meeting with the IBM execs, IBM PC-DOS may >>>> have had some PL/M in it. However, we got ms-dos instead. As >>>> I understand it, Kildall used a DEC PDP minicomputer running a >>>> PL/M cross compiler in order to develop CP/M. >>> >>> Must have been one of the bigger DEC machines. He wrote the PL/M >>> cross compiler in Fortran, and it needed at least a 32 bit >>> machine. PDP-10, PDP-20, or VAX maybe. >> >> Please pardon me for butting in, but someone mentioned PDPs, so.. >> ;) >> >> The PL/M was done on a PDP-10 (DECsystem-10), a 36-bit machine. > > I assume you mean the original development. The actual code was > supposed to run on any Fortran with a big enough word size. The code > certainly looked very friendly to IBM Fortran IV, but I can’t say I > tried it in that environment. I certainly didn’t encounter any use > of the peculiar DEC Fortran extensions I’ve seen in other code. Duh, wow, I don't know what illiterate part of my brain caused me to type that. What I meant was "the CP/M development", not "the PL/M". Please re-eval the sentence with that correction. ;) >> The VAX was announced about five years after Kildall began CP/M >> development. > > That's right, I wasn’t thinking. 70’s, 80’s, it’s all a blur... I know what ya mean.. >> (Nit: there's no such thing as a PDP-20, but there are >> DECsystem-20s, which are PDP-10s.) > > I’d forgotten that nit, but now my three remaining brain cells are > saying yes. Yup. I have a few here. =) >> Aren't the "FinFETs" in modern microprocessors not the same thing >> that Bokor et al developed more recently? > > As with all inventions, the origins are murky if you look closely > enough, and there are variations. I recall the idea of surrounding > the channel with gates from an early description of FET technology > from the 1960’s. It was part of a pedagogical presentation, which > then went on to explain that real FETs used a planar structure. Jeff > was certainly involved in the revival of this idea, but I’m not > straying any farther into the territory of patent lawyers ;-) Hmm ok. Well from the industry buzz, they're clearly onto something big! I'll have to read up on it one of these days. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA