X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=Tgy9GFGuZmuWDWPJn7j0j+bddCFRKWovJs3mIQsYaDg=; b=LZphzS+WI+nVWSmdbLjqqWDjIuGHGhuQIORKLW93mW//U5vllWVGuWnvNuRdMeTWbO lgJvhrJjFdIEUhWWIvOuYv6s0LbrykaCq9SjWy3yJXgKm6tEt9b63DJHfjEm9IQ+YzKq /W+73Q73nCNTOPcK0Hu2S0k/E/kMDp46vYUm1GccckGNpMjLUc6AcQD/s3F1LeRYdQ3b 7IuIUq3Z9GOlCOngjlY/R3SjBg9vNDzryrxlf2J0/5qCOrOCHpWr6VeNi5cmpxqSNVlS Dzlydr4aay/XWd/iGtRT5NbwwVA2Rlh0HJ2DkAP0rrnH6zZ3JWIn8Fo8CcTuEq3XIjkG cCZg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.176.131 with SMTP id be3mr352108icb.77.1378238309348; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 12:58:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 11:58:29 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [geda-user] Announcement: gnet-spice-noqsi From: Britton Kerin To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=90e6ba6e8f0ed842cb04e5801cca Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk --90e6ba6e8f0ed842cb04e5801cca Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba6e8f0ed842c604e5801cc8 --90e6ba6e8f0ed842c604e5801cc8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi John, I had a simple rectifier for which I had to make a separate schematic (needed subcircuit model for a part) for ngspice so I gave this a shot. Its a very simple case and I'm not much of a SPICE person so just tried dropping your backend in place of the original. I don't know if it's supposed to work as a drop-in replacement for spice-sdb, but it didn't. I didn't spend much time but it wasn't immediately obvious what attributes needed to be changed/renamed, maybe a note on migration would be useful? This is a very small simple circuit using device, value, model, and model-name and so far as I recall nothing else that spice cares about. I'm attaching the .sch input, spice-sdb, and spice-noqsi netlists, and complaints that ngspice gives when I try to run it (looks like the model values don't make it in). Britton On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 11:42 AM, John Doty wrote: > > The spice-noqsi back end for gnetlist has reached a state where I believe it is ready for ordinary gEDA users. My goal has been to make it easier to construct schematics that can be input to both simulation and layout. Past SPICE netlisters for gEDA have tended to force the user to maintain separate simulation and layout schematics for several reasons: > > 1. The use of pinseq attributes for sequencing connections is incompatible with the use of pinseq for slotting. > > 2. Component reference designator prefixes in SPICE are sometimes incompatible with printed circuit conventions. > > 3. SPICE primitive models aren't always compatible with actual discrete components. The most common example is the MOSFET, where discretes rarely have a separate substrate pin, but SPICE needs one. > > 4. Discrete device models may be subcircuits, even for "elementary" components. > > 5. Previous SPICE netlisters have expressed hierarchy in a way that's incompatible with gnetlist's hierarchy traversal. > > Previous SPICE netlisters have attempted to cope with these problems by identifying and fixing special cases. That works most of the time, but when it doesn't work the problems are intractable. > > My new spice-noqsi netlister avoids these problems by recognizing some new spice-specific attributes. The most important is spice-prototype. Attached to a symbol, it describes how a symbol instance's attributes and connections should be expressed to SPICE. You don't have to attach these to most symbols: defaults handle most cases compatibly with previous SPICE netlisters. However, when you need to, you can take control. > > To try it out, you'll need ngspice installed (and gaf, of course). Then: > > git clone https://github.com/noqsi/gnet-spice-noqsi.git > cd gnet-spice-noqsi/ > > (for the next step you may need to be superuser) > ./install.sh > > cd BBamp/ > make > > You should obtain a plot of the frequency response of an amplifier. > > Please try it out. Have a look at the README files, the schematics, and the Makefile to understand how it works. Send me reports, suggestions, complaints, ... > > John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. > http://www.noqsi.com/ > jpd AT noqsi DOT com --90e6ba6e8f0ed842c604e5801cc8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi John,

I had a sim= ple rectifier for which I had to make a separate schematic (needed
subci= rcuit model for a part) for ngspice so I gave this a shot.=A0 Its a verysimple case and I'm not much of a SPICE person so just tried dropping = your
backend in place of the original.=A0 I don't know if it's supposed = to=A0 work as a
drop-in replacement for spice-sdb, but it didn't.=A0= I didn't spend much time but
it wasn't immediately obvious what= attributes needed to be changed/renamed,
maybe a note on migration would be useful?

This is a very small simp= le circuit using device, value, model, and model-name
and so far as I re= call nothing else that spice cares about.

I'm attaching the .sch= input, spice-sdb, and spice-noqsi netlists, and
complaints that ngspice gives when I try to run it (looks like the model va= lues
don't make it in).

Britton

On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at= 11:42 AM, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com= > wrote:
>
> The spice-noqsi back end for gnetlist has reached a state wher= e I believe it is ready for ordinary gEDA users. My goal has been to make i= t easier to construct schematics that can be input to both simulation and l= ayout.=A0 Past SPICE netlisters for gEDA have tended to force the user to m= aintain separate simulation and layout schematics for several reasons:
>
> 1. The use of pinseq attributes for sequencing connections is = incompatible with the use of pinseq for slotting.
>
> 2. Compon= ent reference designator prefixes in SPICE are sometimes incompatible with = printed circuit conventions.
>
> 3. SPICE primitive models aren't always compatible with ac= tual discrete components. The most common example is the MOSFET, where disc= retes rarely have a separate substrate pin, but SPICE needs one.
> > 4. Discrete device models may be subcircuits, even for "elementar= y" components.
>
> 5. Previous SPICE netlisters have expre= ssed hierarchy in a way that's incompatible with gnetlist's hierarc= hy traversal.
>
> Previous SPICE netlisters have attempted to cope with these pr= oblems by identifying and fixing special cases. That works most of the time= , but when it doesn't work the problems are intractable.
>
> My new spice-noqsi netlister avoids these problems by recognizing some= new spice-specific attributes. The most important is spice-prototype. Atta= ched to a symbol, it describes how a symbol instance's attributes and c= onnections should be expressed to SPICE. You don't have to attach these= to most symbols: defaults handle most cases compatibly with previous SPICE= netlisters. However, when you need to, you can take control.
>
> To try it out, you'll need ngspice installed (and gaf, of = course). Then:
>
> git clone https://github.com/noqsi/gnet-spice-noqsi.git > cd gnet-spice-noqsi/
>
> (for the next step you may need t= o be superuser)
> ./install.sh
>
> cd BBamp/
> make=
>
> You should obtain a plot of the frequency response of an a= mplifier.
>
> Please try it out. Have a look at the README files, the schema= tics, and the Makefile to understand how it works. Send me reports, suggest= ions, complaints, ...
>
> John Doty=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0 Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
> http://www.noqsi.com/
> jpd AT noqsi DOT com


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