X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-help-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-help AT delorie DOT com X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=p44A9rK5Z0uYQ0cdQO5rCx50XGjYE02QnbO6PSQabrA=; b=cvcGYdKIst9smIS2ABBn0yntwmB9ZhheaOBsDeYbvUy82PTnUcaznHhRp215WEAhdI Q+Qy2YADTaPdINoZXjf5rUAFQm1H75Vd5QSePr87ujRIyIYplWuUrMuSmNCRDYsF6Mkp slsNIzAs7KGQSEzd9YkkoeGJIFwY+4vJcx72SuHsZK6h1vdDzG23QdUZbSUDJFfW9HyI QaqDmkJX6aHmD+KLSp6mAQux4ikrFlb/na1+HnCOv4lqAzA4AvG6XPPpGiacuNeeQfFw LpUmOHBCAa10mczRDFYBJI+FQ1xtlf/OLoo7GrCplbSAHLZQG94nckctsX7bPTLvq1Wa ljFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=p44A9rK5Z0uYQ0cdQO5rCx50XGjYE02QnbO6PSQabrA=; b=PHigKAYH3gjp5oS4Hwbu0GozEcJCrkOviFoA4yQ25LnQ2+qNrYmSrqJnn+Bj6GBS7s zfO1iwNKfjqhyEfIXC9iaEQqdV1cVjrHlYWeyE0yRABzsQsleCrynQA4F0wlsKclE6Dj AzMFia+oz5uR1ISqG3QKw2RyarHp4oWdfNfS4u7x5jFFlGZtxWR5m5wCOL8A/yjAMZr0 8aWZUF5l3p8f65I0RfsnyW9oxzmA1Ze2pRYLAsMppZ8rSyXJxwKh8pEvEsql2SYi4bQ2 dhGxc/CbsKButv8CjY2q9WaaVE9UA1Ivk/byuyP0f/+tHSxhDgXm9UCMdKvvMWRtq9cn dM1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39lFoVI66fPvOLFmRPc30AJmYUOKjiUJT5vmA4N1N8QAAJITQ3OEsz3MYSnR0NYPjDTUcbtfBZ6TSmaq3Q== X-Received: by 10.223.154.162 with SMTP id a31mr9316569wrc.145.1487531903859; Sun, 19 Feb 2017 11:18:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170218092550.57f2bac6@debian.olsr> References: <20170215114403 DOT 42fc309c AT debian> <20170215161700 DOT 6ffbd79e AT debian> <20170218092550 DOT 57f2bac6 AT debian DOT olsr> From: "Chad Parker (parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2017 14:18:23 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [geda-help] Strange view in pcb! To: geda-help AT delorie DOT com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f403045f546ab8c5aa0548e702fe Reply-To: geda-help AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-help AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk --f403045f546ab8c5aa0548e702fe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 It took me a sec, but I figured out what he means. He's turning off the pins/pads so that they're not in the way while he's routing on inner layers. The problem is that when you turn off the pins/pads, it turns them off for all layers. On the inner layers a plated thru-hole will (often) have a circuilar pad around it, not to mention that there is actually a hole through the board. With pins/pads off, there is no indication of this this at all and you can route a trace straight through a through-hole with out realizing it (or on the top or bottom layer too, actually). Hence the feature's he's asking for. If you could turn off surface mount pads without turning off pins, then this wouldn't be a problem. Or, if we had an "online-DRC" that would prevent you from drawing things that violated design rules, it would also prevent you from doing this. The quickest fix for this, I think, is to change things slightly so that pins and vias are grouped together for visibility and pads are their own separate "layer". The right way to do this probably involves reworking the layer system, but this is a pretty quick hack that should work for now. I opened a bug report on LaunchPad: https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb/+bug/1666052 --Chad On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 3:25 AM, Smilie (smilie AT posteo DOT de) [via geda-help AT delorie DOT com] wrote: > I think, PCB need some additional features: > > > 1. split PIN/PAD Layer in two Buttons PIN and PAD. > 2. make it possible, that the "auto enforce DRC clearance" works also > while moving lines. > > 3. the algorithm for "auto enforce DRC clearance" could be modified, > that the line will be lay around the barrier? > > > > > Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:28:44 +0000 > schrieb "Peter Clifton (petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via > geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" : > > > I think I'll have to try that to understand properly; but if you mean > > - you accidentally shorted against pins which you had switched off > > visibility for... Not sure how to avoid that fully. > > > > Perhaps need to separate the view controls a little more. In my later > > 3D stuff (available on repo.or.cz), in 3D view turning off any layer > > also hides things like copper pads on that layer. > > > > Peter > > > > Peter > > > > On 15 Feb 2017 15:19, "Smilie (smilie AT posteo DOT de) [via > > geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" wrote: > > > > > Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:48:02 +0000 > > > schrieb "Peter Clifton (petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via > > > geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" : > > > > > > > Any chance you can post a screenshot of what you describe? > > > > > > > > (Imagebin.ca or similar if the files are big?) > > > > > > > > On 15 Feb 2017 10:45, "Smilie (smilie AT posteo DOT de) [via > > > > geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello guys, > > > > > > > > > > if i have an Jumper connected through all layers. > > > > > But if i disable the view of all layers, apart from a inner > > > > > signal-layer, the contacts of the connected through is not > > > > > visible. This is in my opinion a bug. > > > > > Or what is this feature for? > > > > > > > > > > lg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, i see the Failure, but i will explain the situation. > > > > > > > > > Step by step: > > > > > > 1. create a new pcb. > > > > > > 2. Load a Jumper1 and place it to the board. > > > > > > 3. Take also some SMD-footprints an place it free over the board. > > > > > > Now you wont draw a line in a (signal) middle layer, but the > > > SMD-Footprints are worry. Because this you make some layers > > > invisible. > > > > > > 4. Now you make the pins/pads invisible. Or what? > > > > > > But, you can not free draw the middle layer, because you have > > > collisions with footprints like Jumper1. > > > > > > > > > > > --f403045f546ab8c5aa0548e702fe Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It took me a sec, but I figured out what he= means.=C2=A0He's turning off the pins/pads so that they're not in = the way while he's routing on inner layers.

The problem is that when you turn off the pins/pads, it turns them off for=20 all layers. On the inner layers a plated thru-hole will (often) have a=20 circuilar pad around it, not to mention that there is actually a hole=20 through the board. With pins/pads off, there is no indication of this=20 this at all and you can route a trace straight through a through-hole=20 with out realizing it (or on the top or bottom layer too, actually).
Hence the feature's he's asking for. If you could turn off s= urface mount pads without turning off pins, then this wouldn't be a pro= blem. Or, if we had an "online-DRC" that would prevent you from d= rawing things that violated design rules, it would also prevent you from do= ing this.

The quickest fix for this, I think, is to change thi= ngs slightly so that pins and vias are grouped together for visibility and = pads are their own separate "layer". The right way to do this pro= bably involves reworking the layer system, but this is a pretty quick hack = that should work for now.

I opened a bug report on Launc= hPad: https://bugs.= launchpad.net/pcb/+bug/1666052

--Chad

On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 3:2= 5 AM, Smilie (smilie AT posteo DOT de) [vi= a geda-help AT delorie DOT com] <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
I think, PCB need some additional features:


1. split PIN/PAD Layer in two Buttons PIN and PAD.
2. make it possible, that the "auto enforce DRC clearance" works = also
while moving lines.

3. the algorithm for "auto enforce DRC clearance" could be modifi= ed,
that the line will be lay around the barrier?




Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:28:44 +0000
schrieb "Peter Clifton (petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via
geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" &= lt;geda-help AT delorie DOT com>:<= br>
> I think I'll have to try that to understand properly; but if you m= ean
> - you accidentally shorted against pins which you had switched off
> visibility for... Not sure how to avoid that fully.
>
> Perhaps need to separate the view controls a little more. In my later<= br> > 3D stuff (available on repo.or.cz), in 3D view turning off any layer
> also hides things like copper pads on that layer.
>
> Peter
>
> Peter
>
> On 15 Feb 2017 15:19, "Smilie (geda-help AT delorie DOT com]&qu= ot; <geda-help AT delorie DOT com&= gt; wrote:
>
> > Am Wed, 15 Feb 2017 10:48:02 +0000
> > schrieb "Peter Clifton (petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via
> > geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com= >:
> >
> > >=C2=A0 Any chance you can post a screenshot of what you descr= ibe?
> > >
> > > (Imagebin.ca or similar if the files are big?)
> > >
> > > On 15 Feb 2017 10:45, "Smilie (smilie AT posteo DOT de) [via
> > > geda-help AT delorie DOT c= om]" <geda-help AT delori= e.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello guys,
> > > >
> > > > if i have an Jumper connected through all layers.
> > > > But if i disable the view of all layers, apart from a i= nner
> > > > signal-layer, the contacts of the connected through is = not
> > > > visible. This is in my opinion a bug.
> > > > Or what is this feature for?
> > > >
> > > > lg
> > > >
> >
> >
> > OK, i see the Failure, but i will explain the situation.
> >
> >
> > Step by step:
> >
> > 1. create a new pcb.
> >
> > 2. Load a Jumper1 and place it to the board.
> >
> > 3. Take also some SMD-footprints an place it free over the board.=
> >
> > Now you wont draw a line in a (signal) middle layer, but the
> > SMD-Footprints are worry. Because this you make some layers
> > invisible.
> >
> > 4. Now you make the pins/pads invisible. Or what?
> >
> > But, you can not free draw the middle layer, because you have
> > collisions with footprints like Jumper1.
> >
> >
> >


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