X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-help-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-help AT delorie DOT com X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=prochac.sk; s=default; t=1484493071; bh=YGEnGy9ACSgn3eZ92fgtGnCOjIWFLiHWD1/c3LdukSY=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=JXFZLg4zymJLMiWLZzGnWp8XGPLpvIneHGHny4HBKFmiDCZE3E+mpj5qumw6X4b+b XiVtdMxmYS1ZP1Np9c4ui72N1SsoPxkG3vziOMxN3ZoM6nP4bnNbkYd2gSdTfcCSfd qoUhyv0wWEM2OgZofiKmLnKjWhynIZjExpU+OQEU= X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Subject: Re: [geda-help] pcb: blind via To: geda-help AT delorie DOT com References: <20160728160657 DOT 7f68f787 AT debian> <20160728174027 DOT 453b2b41 AT debian DOT olsr> <20160728192015 DOT 4fc84ce8 AT debian DOT olsr> <201607282248 DOT u6SMmTxw006065 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> <39718d63-9fb1-3cd0-bcfd-32c60e0255ef AT prochac DOT sk> From: "Milan Prochac (milan AT prochac DOT sk) [via geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" Message-ID: <1237d843-b268-72e8-7628-df539bb62dec@prochac.sk> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 16:11:00 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <39718d63-9fb1-3cd0-bcfd-32c60e0255ef@prochac.sk> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms030709020405080904010508" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on angua.bastl.sk Reply-To: geda-help AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-help AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030709020405080904010508 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To close this topic: The implementation is finished for several months already, just some=20 details are missing (like special naming convention should be extended=20 to cover blind/buried vias). But I lost any motivation to participate on = this dead project, so these minor enhancements are not implemented,=20 including some more "planned" enhancements like layer-pair definition=20 according fab requirements (and new DRC checks to enforce them),=20 restrict layer grouping to continuous groups (non-continuous groups are=20 confusing in combination with blind/buried vias) and handling of via=20 endpoints when line segment is moved. I finally decided to provide existing version as is - it should be fully = working, it just needs more public testing and feedback. Here:=20 https://bugs.launchpad.net/pcb/+bug/1656661 If no blind/buried via is used and no specific option is turned on, file = format is backwards compatible. I found that there was already created another implementation - in 2008=20 - and it was not touched on launchpad until 2015... So see you in 2024. Milan On 24.08.2016 14:26, Milan Prochac (milan AT prochac DOT sk) [via=20 geda-help AT delorie DOT com] wrote: > > Status update, to keep the topic warm: > > * visual presentation: > - blind/buried vias have 2 half-circles drawn on top; colors=20 > indicate starting and ending layer of blind/buried via=20 > (https://static.bastl.sk/pcb/bvias_01.png) > - if all layers penetrated by blind/buried via are turned off the=20 > via is thin-drawn (https://static.bastl.sk/pcb/bvias_02.png) > > * action to set blind/buried vias was modified to allow set only one=20 > end and use currently active layer; such actions can be bound to menu=20 > items and hot-keys (done for GTK HID) -=20 > https://static.bastl.sk/pcb/bvias_03.png and=20 > https://static.bastl.sk/pcb/bvias_04.png. These actions together with=20 > visualisation and immediate on-screen changes seems to be sufficient=20 > user interface, so no GUI dialog will be implemented. > > * Ratnest optimization and short detection was modified to take=20 > blind/buried into account > > * Layer management is partially done - adding and removing layer works = > fine, moving layer is not completely finished/tested. > > * When layer is changed during line draw, the automatically created=20 > vias can be blind/buried; the same applies for line move from one=20 > layer to another. This behavior is controlled by option=20 > (https://static.bastl.sk/pcb/bvias_06.png). On following pictures the=20 > identical operation was first performed with option switched off=20 > (upper track) and with option switched on; line draw:=20 > https://static.bastl.sk/pcb/bvias_04.png and line move:=20 > https://static.bastl.sk/pcb/bvias_05.png. The via creation logic was=20 > not changed, only via type is affected. > > * export hid was adjusted to create additional drill layers for layer=20 > pairs connected by blind/buried vias. The default drill layer is used=20 > for through-hole pins and vias - if no blind/buried vias are used,=20 > there is no change in generated output. > - no changes in exporter API; backward compatibility with external=20 > exporters is retained > - PS and Gerber exporters were modified to accept additional layers=20 > - the only change was the filename creation (plus font size and line=20 > spacing on TOC page of PS export); for gerber the alternate naming=20 > schemes need to be adjusted. > - remaining standard exporters need to be reviewed, but at first=20 > look they do not need any change; the OpenSCAD exporter will be=20 > adjusted later. > > There are still some minor issues - for example freedom in layer=20 > grouping: if layer group does not contain contiguous layers, the=20 > behavior is confusing (but correct) in some situations. I need to=20 > decide the level of warnings about this situation or enforcing the=20 > contiguous layer groups. > > Another one are degraded vias (single layer vias). Vias with both ends = > on the same layer can be avoided (and automatically deleted after=20 > layer removal for example), but vias with both ends on same layer=20 > group cannot be avoided easily. Behavior is correct, just unnecessary=20 > copper ring with no associated drill is created on respective layer=20 > group. Maybe these degraded vias should be detected as part of DRC. > > The special topic is the output used for PCB fabrication. Currently=20 > the drill pairs are automatically generated. Maybe some kind of drill = > pair configuration and checks if design fits these pairs should be=20 > implemented. I have very little experience with commercial packages=20 > (and no time to learn them), so some feedback or ideas are welcome. > > Milan > > > > On 8/3/2016 3:31 AM, Milan Prochac (milan AT prochac DOT sk) [via=20 > geda-help AT delorie DOT com] wrote: >> >> Update: >> >> Already implemented: >> 1. internal representation. Single connection per via is=20 >> implemented. Via stacking will be enabled later. >> 2. file format with backward compatibility (if no blind/buried vias = >> are used); bugs fixed >> 3. new action SetViaLayers implemented. Select action extended by=20 >> BuriedVias parameter. See generated pcb.pdf for more details >> 3a. Undo was extended to cover new operations >> 4. object report (Ctrl-R) contains information about blind/buried vi= as >> 5. Drawing code updated: >> 5a. on GUI HID (screen) vias themselves are drawn unchanged.=20 >> Any recommendation how to visually distinguish blind/buriad vias from = >> through-hole vias are welcome. >> 5b. on GUI HID (screen) clerarances and thermals are cut-out=20 >> only on respective layers >> 5c. on non-GUI HID exporters both vias and clearances/thermals=20 >> are drawn on respective layers only >> 6. exporters which use standard drawing interface displays correct=20 >> data (tested on PostScript and gerber). Drill information will=20 >> require serious reworking - single plated and unplated drill is not=20 >> sufficient; >> >> What will come next >> 7. ERC check (optimize rats) to evaluate connections only on proper = >> layers >> 8. maintain layer information after layer operations: new layer,=20 >> remove layer, move layer >> 9. maintain layer information after line move to another layer >> 10. automatically create blind/buried via when changed layer during=20 >> line drawing; it will be controlled by option. >> 11. update solder mask drawing >> 12. GUI dialog to change via type >> >> Current code: https://static.bastl.sk/pcb/Burried-vias-step-2.tar.gz=20 >> . Testers are welcome. >> >> Milan >> >> > > --------------ms030709020405080904010508 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC CtowggTwMIID2KADAgECAhBqqLAGfunD4XYlcEsP4ElzMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMHUxCzAJ BgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSkwJwYDVQQLEyBTdGFydENvbSBD ZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTEjMCEGA1UEAxMaU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3MgMSBDbGll bnQgQ0EwHhcNMTYwMzA3MDEwODU2WhcNMTcwMzA3MDEwODU2WjA8MRkwFwYDVQQDDBBtaWxh bkBwcm9jaGFjLnNrMR8wHQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhBtaWxhbkBwcm9jaGFjLnNrMIIBIjANBgkq hkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEA0mKGFeH4hukzo8EbR08H7ZFZ1uAI3mTA51yN6C/Q R++4fhe2R6U1yGR2bQeWal47aLFt4bhUEED1cvU4GDT+tzJUeQMSghB1qwrPQfzJueT3ReYA 5uaym6q2tFR9qm5lhSWqac//+mPFThodIz7rMT4a5R2ZnQjBSiEOVP73Sf0jiD7ylNBqvkCd 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