X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-help-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Recipient: geda-help AT delorie DOT com Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2021 20:19:13 +0100 From: Kai-Martin Knaak To: Cc: Subject: [geda-help] How to get element outline off-board Message-ID: <20210307201913.4d5d35e8@swips.iqo.uni-hannover.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/QGZ2U3Fd/bMy79Pqr5loxhG"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:tLJ2mYz/pGRPd95waD3T27vgbf3RFgjNqWRuSW9+UC045XEAO2O 87QijhQfXO6cqy62CI3R0NRr3ZoFiACKXdA/3/Gepi+xDC6YFdTF/YDCJ8Uwm4JPClEUz4D 6GAwbZY6zrfxNhvBIijgbXiIdtqijrEs1AIz/xfGapDtfqFZmMmmayay2GqThgs+0+liAVi mqOCOv4BliU2pjkzcMfMA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:o86vCdWwwiY=:J03/HdXQ602IDY2kCFRUZD irrnG4566J2E6JoUolKeflyIA0aQIpOrAw8/Q/jqk4mlW9Fcqh7zDpnNM1Y7ZiLn61rHEf8+Y INUmJN/2URst5B+uhOuW1Ds8ilOJOifsY0FuXpuNpOEak5fgpVH7dWF+Yy14gaT22mwb/aX5l dbmraeeSJBczR02g2wV+EhrSO1qMFu6xn6hdh3Z/mRAIoIIY+DL7QX0y+PavzGCf9C7UF/Aut yONnemuoCIO/hu+TXX2Hzz4BYq40xXTs21xb2NwvidSzISZG4C28cf1xvu1uhcGguvCbQD6c6 LaMrXimQ0MsXtCtZPDF7Rp9VociombjLdJXkbYWnXBavgVgDqOBQO2RvV0cjzu9hPud7HsdHe LvCrtGhUbVe2ZcOR2dIP35FIEFOPgmzwjQI5ygmN8r/sSMljMIY/oLW4rz9Bk4ZeGqWsomVrw sBGOn/UZ+Q== Reply-To: geda-help AT delorie DOT com --Sig_/QGZ2U3Fd/bMy79Pqr5loxhG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roland Lutz schrieb am 25. February 2021: > On Thu, 25 Feb 2021, Torben Friis (friistf AT gmail DOT com) [via=20 > geda-help AT delorie DOT com] wrote: =20 > > I have not been using the design software for some time. I have used=20 > > gEDA and lately Lepton/Lepton-cli(?). Now I am confused - should I > > use gEDA or Lepton/Lepton-cli? =20 >=20 > I'll let the gEDA/gaf 1.10 changelog speak for itself: > http://git.geda-project.org/geda-gaf/tree/NEWS#n107 =20 This being a geda mailing list, a little context may be appropriate. Version 1.10 is the first release since Roland effectively picked up the torch to lead the gEDA/gaf development.=20 =3D=3D Improved gschem GUI In 1.10 the gschem GUI got a major overhaul. The most obvious change is probably the ability of dialogues to "dock" to the sides of the main window. You still can configure the GUI for the traditional pop-up window style. However, there is a reason why most high profile design applications have switched to some kind of docked interface. =20 The action items of gschem got reorganized in the menus. No worries, all the accel keys stayed the same.=20 There are a couple of more subtle but still influential changes: =20 * A double click on a sub circuit symbol brings you directly to the circuit.=20 * The symbol selection dialogue now deals gracefully with nested folders. Previous versions of geda would assume only two layers. * Negative coordinates are accessible in the gschem GUI now. You can now set the origin to wherever you prefer your mouse to handle the symbol. + many more. See the changelog for the details. =3D=3D Python for the back office The most sweeping change since geda 1.8 refers to the back office. Roland converted and essentially rewrote all the back-ends from scheme to python. This is part of an effort to make geda not depend on guile. The scheme dialect guile is a viable choice for an interpreted language from a purely technical point of view. However, there is a glaring issue that might be described as "social". Scheme and guile even more so lacks popular adoption. Geda with its very niche topic and rather small user base is one of the largest open source projects to actually use guile. Only few users and even less potential developers are experienced scheme users. In addition, the guile biotope tends to treat windows as an afterthought. So guile 2.0 has not been available on MS Windows for many years after guile 1.8 was declared obsolete. Consequently, there has been no natively compiled windows version of geda since 2013. The lack of a MS Windows version of geda certainly impacted adoption of geda a lot - in particular in the maker scene. If you were to start an open hardware project, would you use an EDA suite that essentially runs on linux only? Or would you choose an alternative suite that is readily available on the OS that most of your friends are already familiar with? Over time, this effect accelerates itself. Everybody tends to use what everybody uses. Unfortunately, this left geda in the dark. Just about every high profile open hardware project uses kicad these days. This fuelled the controversy that led to the fork of geda. Is an infrastructure based on scheme a valuable asset that just needs some polishing? Or is guile an obstacle that needs to be removed to facilitate long time survival of geda as a viable suite? The developers who forked geda into lepton-eda firmly believe in the former. While the main line of geda development works on the latter approach.=20 TL;DR:=20 Use lepton-eda if you like scheme and enjoy hacking guile scripts to adopt the suite to your special needs. Stay with geda if you are more into python and would like to benefit from the recent improvements of the gschem GUI. ---<)kaimartin(>--- PS: CC to geda-user because this involves a more general aspect of geda. --=20 Kai-Martin Knaak Email: kmk AT familieknaak DOT de =C3=96ffentlicher PGP-Schl=C3=BCssel: https://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?op=3Dindex&search=3D0x7B0F9882 --Sig_/QGZ2U3Fd/bMy79Pqr5loxhG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEyAypwA/y2l/nFU8PwTqkzHsPmIIFAmBFJzEACgkQwTqkzHsP mILsIBAAwmc2woiTmw3Lqfb2fO84vMssM5sru53N94audmZ8hMCDyRxXlGuqvJ9q 5Sq21okRcjWbDbEHBcSWDlmPNHQr2lT16pKrtsM2cFPSRpa/ivndetXOy+1rHzQw pq9atWvoPgpZw4mM0e5blqqRDS/zcUasbz/xcfPcY1qqUI9jF7+75yThA3B4GCmk UbEdu7kmO6hMNcsOTOMEm/nJ5qCkIcxFqfe51Ga4aLZ1Ddu1D6Jl5PdIsxGHBkMw 1cMEG2J0gd7qlyJaMwYDs/yAfoGOh6vELXQD8ZQ4tP/DYVVZ5r3BaBSLX414Gs3p 9XRx6AbnMPhtS1atlgimbG/oiEm+1CSwnMjzLft4sNB/GBYg2QIGd3PKuRMzaS1A q06NWjTDzjOZLHbyvOQksIbrzUzXFQTxLIC/L+jDTKfi00CslOT+UqEMGEf5u7IM u1jNL9rPLkUxKCa+DnR9gYdqcMwKV0vzbh2gfSuxyZ5Sx/FuadRBmpWFqCYGFTee gKYp+SCSLCdtMhQxmxZMjD9suDcQjehqOxTz/uidf4ofYejx5F/UKPestl7zTYkR +ynMK/cuKtPNZ2D0U2EzueaIgJlz8nbqa9HXieMmpS6AuPRwBC0bBIFUdtV7zj3A BPEsQTsA1WpKCGbYFyGMjIQp3CRGT1GL2QG5sh56alhbeoxtR0A= =3gIK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/QGZ2U3Fd/bMy79Pqr5loxhG--