Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:21:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Louis P. Santillan" To: djgpp AT delorie DOT com Subject: Re: DJGPP: the future is... ? In-Reply-To: <36FFEE44.9499FC4B@lycosmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reply-To: djgpp AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: djgpp AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk I believe that GNOME runs on the X API. Somebody (DJ?) with more Linux/Unix experience correct me if I'm wrong. On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Adam Schrotenboer wrote: > If I may make another suggestion, I hear references to a port of X windows > (Is this just a part of XFree 86, or essentially the same thing???). I was > thinking that a port of GNOME may be a bit better. XFree86 is Open Source, > but not GPL, while GNOME is. > > DJ Delorie wrote: > > > Don't panic! > > > > I've been doing some thinking lately about where DJGPP is going. I've > > concluded to myself that it really isn't *going* anywhere, it's > > *there*. The core code is pretty stable and feature-full. GNU ports > > come out often enough, and we're becoming "just another unix platform" > > for a lot of people. The web pages have pretty much everything I can > > think to add to them (although we can always use more documentation :) > > The big focus these days is on third-party additions (like Allegro) > > and applications. > > > > Cool. > > > > The big question I have for you all is this: What's next? > > > > I don't mean "Let's write application XYZ", I mean for the DJGPP > > project itself. Think BIG. I don't see too many people installing > > DOS these days, and Cygwin is shaping up to be almost as good as DJGPP > > (hey, I can boast - I'm on both teams) so the Win32 systems will see > > less demand for DJGPP over time (I expect, at least). Plus, a lot of > > DJGPP users are switching to Linux or WinNT/Cygwin. > > > > So what are our choices? > > > > Well, we can try to saturate the DOS market. I don't know how to do > > that, unless we spend a fortune on ads in PC magazines :-( Perhaps an > > effort to "spread the word" in other forums (nicely, please) would > > "enlighten the uninformed", but it's for diminishing returns. > > > > We could try to make DJGPP a Windows-native system. I don't think > > this is a good idea because 90% of the value in DJGPP is the way it > > hides DOS, and we'd have to throw it all away and start from scratch > > if we switched to the Win32 API. Plus, Cygwin already does Win32, and > > legally I can't promote such a project because that's what I already > > do for Cygnus. If you like this option, join the cygwin team - you'll > > be much happier, and we can always use more help. > > > > For the same reason, DJGPP for Linux is a bad idea. Heck, DJGPP is a > > port of the Linux tools themselves! > > > > We could overhaul DJGPP again for ELF support and a few other > > fundamental design changes, but why mess with a good thing? Sure, > > we've got a list of bugs to fix (like C++ templates in COFF) but > > they'll get fixed eventually. Such redesigns would have little real > > effect on the project. > > > > So, I'm at a loss as to where we should be focusing our energy at this > > time. Mailing list traffic doubled every year from 1993 to 1997, but > > *dropped* 10% in 1998 (1999 isn't looking too good, either), and > > delorie.com's web server has had a pretty steady load for the last two > > years, even though I've got plenty of spare resources. I think our > > period of growth is over unless we start something new, but what? > > > > So my task for you, my loyal fans, devoted followers, silent lurkers, > > and the occasional tax collector (hiss!) is to help shape the future! > > Let's get those ideas flowing and figure out what the Next Big Thing > > for us will be! > > > > Considerations (but not limitations): > > > > * GPL. We've come a long way with it, no reason to change now. > > > > * Should give something to the community. DJGPP was built by the > > community, the benefits should go to the community. > > > > * Traffic to my web server means money for us, which I turn into more > > servers, bigger disks, faster net connections, time to write CGIs, > > etc. The main DJGPP server is a P166 with 27Gb of disk and a 1Mb/s > > link, but if you folks want to chip in for a PII/450 I'll get one > > ;-) Current traffic just about covers ISP, electric bills, and > > upkeep (about $9,000/year). > > > > * Should be long term and highly visible, so we'll all get rich and > > famous (we hope) through contracts and such. > > > > * Should be something that can grow on its own. For example, if > > personal labor is involved (like consulting), you're limited by how > > much you can do, but a web page, computer program, or software > > package can grow and multiply without needing more people-hours. > > This also frees us up to do other projects when we're done :-) > > > > So crank up those brains, think carefully, and let's hear your > > suggesions. No flames please! You may send me private mail if you > > don't want your ideas public, else send them to the djgpp forum. > > > > DJ > >