Message-ID: <36FFEA89.854392FF@lycosmail.com> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:03:05 -0500 From: Adam Schrotenboer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: djgpp AT delorie DOT com Subject: Re: DJGPP: the future is... ? References: <199903260517 DOT AAA32193 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: djgpp AT delorie DOT com If I may add my $.02, I would like to see further development/maintenance of RSX. As I understand, it's still back in the days of GCC 2.7.x.x, and now we have EGCS, PGCC, and the standby GCC 2.8.1. Is anybody maintaining the pkg anymore??? If I honestly thought I could help, I would, but I doubt that I have skill or time to do so, even though I do want to. I do agree that DJGPP should not become a port to Win32, though I do believe that we need more support for it. Cygwin, though it may be GPL or Pseudo GPL, is still not free, and the backing is hardly there. I would guess that if somebody really wants commercial Win32 they'll go VC++ (Which I personally think is a bastardization of C++. It's not cross-platform, it's M$ proprietary, and costs a fortune. The compiler may be decent, but the Visual part I have a problem with). Anyway, I would like to see better support for Win32, partly because DOS will become a lot harder to get to in newer versions of Windows. Personally, I intend to start using Linux, and drop Windows as soon as it is practical. Until then, I'll probably run a dual-boot. Yes, I admit that all this is just my opinion, and I am probably wrong one a point or two, and if I have offended anyone, my apologies. DJ Delorie wrote: > Don't panic! > > I've been doing some thinking lately about where DJGPP is going. I've > concluded to myself that it really isn't *going* anywhere, it's > *there*. The core code is pretty stable and feature-full. GNU ports > come out often enough, and we're becoming "just another unix platform" > for a lot of people. The web pages have pretty much everything I can > think to add to them (although we can always use more documentation :) > The big focus these days is on third-party additions (like Allegro) > and applications. > > Cool. > > The big question I have for you all is this: What's next? > > I don't mean "Let's write application XYZ", I mean for the DJGPP > project itself. Think BIG. I don't see too many people installing > DOS these days, and Cygwin is shaping up to be almost as good as DJGPP > (hey, I can boast - I'm on both teams) so the Win32 systems will see > less demand for DJGPP over time (I expect, at least). Plus, a lot of > DJGPP users are switching to Linux or WinNT/Cygwin. > > So what are our choices? > > Well, we can try to saturate the DOS market. I don't know how to do > that, unless we spend a fortune on ads in PC magazines :-( Perhaps an > effort to "spread the word" in other forums (nicely, please) would > "enlighten the uninformed", but it's for diminishing returns. > > We could try to make DJGPP a Windows-native system. I don't think > this is a good idea because 90% of the value in DJGPP is the way it > hides DOS, and we'd have to throw it all away and start from scratch > if we switched to the Win32 API. Plus, Cygwin already does Win32, and > legally I can't promote such a project because that's what I already > do for Cygnus. If you like this option, join the cygwin team - you'll > be much happier, and we can always use more help. > > For the same reason, DJGPP for Linux is a bad idea. Heck, DJGPP is a > port of the Linux tools themselves! > > We could overhaul DJGPP again for ELF support and a few other > fundamental design changes, but why mess with a good thing? Sure, > we've got a list of bugs to fix (like C++ templates in COFF) but > they'll get fixed eventually. Such redesigns would have little real > effect on the project. > > So, I'm at a loss as to where we should be focusing our energy at this > time. Mailing list traffic doubled every year from 1993 to 1997, but > *dropped* 10% in 1998 (1999 isn't looking too good, either), and > delorie.com's web server has had a pretty steady load for the last two > years, even though I've got plenty of spare resources. I think our > period of growth is over unless we start something new, but what? > > So my task for you, my loyal fans, devoted followers, silent lurkers, > and the occasional tax collector (hiss!) is to help shape the future! > Let's get those ideas flowing and figure out what the Next Big Thing > for us will be! > > Considerations (but not limitations): > > * GPL. We've come a long way with it, no reason to change now. > > * Should give something to the community. DJGPP was built by the > community, the benefits should go to the community. > > * Traffic to my web server means money for us, which I turn into more > servers, bigger disks, faster net connections, time to write CGIs, > etc. The main DJGPP server is a P166 with 27Gb of disk and a 1Mb/s > link, but if you folks want to chip in for a PII/450 I'll get one > ;-) Current traffic just about covers ISP, electric bills, and > upkeep (about $9,000/year). > > * Should be long term and highly visible, so we'll all get rich and > famous (we hope) through contracts and such. > > * Should be something that can grow on its own. For example, if > personal labor is involved (like consulting), you're limited by how > much you can do, but a web page, computer program, or software > package can grow and multiply without needing more people-hours. > This also frees us up to do other projects when we're done :-) > > So crank up those brains, think carefully, and let's hear your > suggesions. No flames please! You may send me private mail if you > don't want your ideas public, else send them to the djgpp forum. > > DJ