From: Elliott Oti Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.djgpp Subject: Re: Ideas for DJGPP. Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 08:40:16 -0800 Organization: Academic Computer Centre Utrecht, (ACCU) Lines: 50 Message-ID: <32A30670.3CA9@stud.warande.ruu.nl> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: warande1078.warande.ruu.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: djgpp AT delorie DOT com DJ-Gateway: from newsgroup comp.os.msdos.djgpp Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, Erik Max Francis wrote: > > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > > > Can you please tell in detail what are the issues that make DJGPP > > > confusing for a newcomer? Thanks. > > > > Most beginning are confused by command-line interfaces and a lack of an > > integrated development environment. > > You mean, those of them who don't want to know anything about the > compiler are confused when they need to actually learn how it should > be called? ;-) With all respect for you guys, it's easy to to forget how confusing learning C can be. If you cut your teeth on C64 assembler as a kid and moved on to Turbo Pascal as a teenager, learning C is a breeze. It's also easy to learn it as a CS major, with lots of feedback from friends and costudents, and access to the right books, but picture this: you're an earnest kid, you wanna learn C, you haven't the faintest idea of what the difference is between a compiler,linker,or preprocessor, you have only the foggiest idea of what the difference is between a header file and a C file, and your buddies don't even know (and don't care) what "C" is (so they can't help you out); you didn't know that libraries have to be linked if their header file's functions are used; you have no idea that including a header file twice without the usual #ifndef __SHIT_H_ stuff will lead to loads of errors ... And believe me, most beginner's books on C are no help in such matters; they usually assume QuickC or Turbo C, and all you need to do to get a program to compile and run is a simple Ctrl-F9 or so. Libraries are automatically linked, dependencies are pre-checked, error reports place the cursor on the offending line ... most beginner's books *assume* all this and *don't* tell you all the stuff we all take for granted now. So I don't think it's silly when a beginner to C faithfully types in the example prog from the book and can't get it to compile under djgpp, and is confused by cryptic messages like "dpmi host not found", "MK_FP undefined function","cannot run 16-bit program" etc. Would you blame him/her for preferring Turbo C which lets you get on with learning the language without all that extra crap? Rhide is an excellent step in the direction of making djgpp beginner-friendly, but guys, don't mock newbies who find the command line environment confusing because it *is*. Elliott.